So, I went back to the past years of the AC rankings and got some numbers for the deepest class (having the most ranked) and the number of #1 ranked kids. This is what i got.

2007-2008
321a – 11 ranked wrestlers – 10%
0 #1 ranked wrestlers
4a – 35 ranked wrestlers – 31%
3 #1 ranked wrestlers
5a – 32 ranked wrestlers – 28%
9 #1 ranked wrestlers
6a – 36 ranked wrestler – 32%
2 #1 ranked wrestlers

2008-2009
321A – 24 ranked wrestlers – 17%
0 #1 ranked wrestlers
4A – 46 ranked wrestlers – 32%
5 #1 ranked wrestlers
5A – 39 ranked wrestlers – 27%
3 #1 ranked wrestlers
6A – 35 ranked wrestlers – 24%
6 #1 ranked wrestlers

2009-2010
321A – 23 ranked wrestlers – 16%
0 #1 ranked wrestlers
4A – 44 ranked wrestlers – 31%
9 # 1 ranked wrestlers
5A – 36 ranked wrestlers – 25%
2 #1 ranked wrestlers
6A – 39 ranked wrestlers – 28%
3 #1 ranked wrestlers

2010-2011
(as of 2/14)
321a – 27 ranked wrestlers – 18%
1 #1 ranked wrestler
4a – 46 ranked wrestlers – 32%
3 #1 ranked wrestlers
5a – 39 ranked wrestlers – 27%
7 #1 ranked wrestlers
6a – 34 ranked wrestlers – 23%
3# 1 ranked wrestlers

Out of the 4 classes 4a normally has the deepest. The first year the AC rankings came out was the only year they didn't have the deepest class. The bigger classes have most of the top guys through out the years except for the 2010 season.

nice quagmire, not sure what that proves except that when you look at it from this stand point.

XGHSWC is right. 16 man brackets don't mean anything when it comes to rankings or toughness of class. Most years 4a has around 5-6% more ranked wrestler than 5A or 6A. NOT GOOD when it comes to percentages because we all know that 4A has 50% more teams. now if you combined the two classes 5A and 6A (as many have suggested) about 50% of the ranked wrestler would be in this now SUPER CLASS. it also proves that.......

Ricky is right. 20 or more wins means alot to rankings and seedings, but doesn't always have to do with quality (also mentioned by XGHSWC). another thing we have proven is.....

Lucas is "grass is always greener" typer person. even though the stats, and percentages show otherwise. " 4a and 321A have it alot tougher because 16 man brackets make tournaments tough, not tough wrestlers". what we have failed to prove........

is Beeson right? IS the Ark City regional the toughest??? All Class??? Every year??? or.............

do rankings really mean anything? well i guess we will begin sorting this one out on Friday. good luck to all competitors at all regionals, this is really the funnest time of year.

If you think about it it really just evens out. While 321a and 4a have more schools, 5a and 6a have more kids in their schools. In my opinion, at the end of the year 4a will always have the most kids ranked. While 5a and 6a will always have the most topnotch kids and 321a will always be at the bottom of the heap (numbers wise). It changes from time to time with new schools being built and class changes. But numbers don't prove anything... Only wrestling does.

In conclusion 5A is the toughest!!!!
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.Kidding

you are soooo good with words that last statement is all i was really trying to say.lol

Dang Ricky, what the heck?
You totally twisted it again.

And now you're the one being a d..k.
The sarcasm is junk and the whole Talladega Nights thing is ridiculous and sounds like something a little kid would say when he doesn't have anything intelligent to say. Although I must admit when I first read it, I laughed.
I don't know about no wrasslin' though so if you're looking for instruction on that you will have to get that elsewhere.

As far as the two regionals thing goes, yes that is an idea with tremendous merit and yes that's old news. The coaches have been talking about that for several years now so I know you're not "just blowing hot air". Oeser and I have actually talked about it along with others. Not likely to change though anytime soon because of course the association is set in their ways. The best thing about it is it would eliminate the ridiculous totally unfair "blind draw" at state that is the direct result of 4 regionals. That is exactly why some states only have 2 regionals.
But hey, life is not fair right, so why should regional balancing or state draws be.

As far as an "immaculate" memory bank, far from it. My wife would certainly disagree with you on that as she thinks that I can't remember anything, well at least not the important stuff. But I can certainly remember how all the teams and kids I have coached in the past have been "adversely" affected by all this stuff we have been fighting about.

I don't know why you keep bringing up that all-class as a measure thing, and why you keep misrepresenting me. I never said that the way that you said that I did. You can spin it however you want but you can clearly see what I said. The first comment was pertaining to the level of competition which is what I was emphasizing and the second was regarding their ranking in their own class. I just threw out the all-class at the end and asked if they were anywhere close to that as in "how do they stack up with quality wrestlers from other classes". And if you will look back you will see that I was refering to the 3/2/1A brackets, not all 7, although that is really irrelevant.

Yes, you are right as HEADUP supported about the 20 win thing maybe not being the best indicator of worth, but 20 wins is still decent and better than 10. Yes some kids like DD could be hurt and wouldn't have 20. Of course they might still be very good. Of course DD is. When I first made that comment I wasn't really thinking about or talking about a "not so good" kid with a weak schedule with 20 wins. I was thinking about the kids in the bracket originally referenced and I knew they were quality wins because I knew the level of competition of their teams. And I agree with Brent Lane that there are some really good kids that don't have 20 wins or not so good of records because of their strength of schedule.

When I think that all this crap came up just because I made one misinterpreted, or should I say one misrepresented, comment about one Ark City regional bracket, it is kind of foolish. This is why I said in a previous post that I shouldn't even respond to your reply because it would just make things worse. I should have went with my gut. Plus my Momma always told me not to get in the mud and wrestle with a pig because you can't win and you will get dirty and I should have listened. But I did make the comment so I guess it's my bad. Oh well, live and learn. I probably won't as this is too fun.

Sorry for the belated response though Ricky but with the other comments I have made recently I was falling behind with my work and I needed to get caught up.

And up4wrestling thanks for correcting me. So it was 50% and not 60% but seems like the last time I looked at that it was about 30% each for 4A, 5A and 6A. So some of the 6A and 5A fell out and some 3/2/1A jumped in so good for them. It really doesn't detract from most of my points. I think that there is more to "class strength" then just that one variable anyway so that doesn't change my opinion that 4A, 5A, and 6A are close in strength. And remember, I never said that 5A and 6A were tougher than 4A. I just said that 4A was not tougher than 5A and 6A. I guess it depends on which variable you look at. The reason that I combined 5A and 6A is because that is what everyone that is in 4A and 3/2/1A are always saying should be done. The current 50% only validates my comment that I have no problem with combining 5A and 6A but only if you combine 4A and 3/2/1A. That would be 50-50 and that would be fair and equitable but you can correct me if I'm wrong.

And while I am in such a writing mood I might as well go ahead and thank Quagmire for validating up4wrestling's correction of my numbers and also HEADUP for their work and comments. The comments seem reasonable for the most part. Quagmire was probably right on point when he stated it probably just evens out.

This is too good to not jump in.

Lets see, I am weraing my green eye shade, I have sharpened my pencil, I have a new eraser, and I have the credit card sized calculator the bank gave me several years ago. I am ready to do some "calculatin". This can't be very difficult.

Lets see--first the givens. There are o/a 96 321A schools (that wrestle), 64- 4A, 32- 5A, and 33- 6A schools. 321A has 25 ranked wrtestlers, 4A has 44 ranked wrestler, 5A has 37, and 6A has 33. So--huuuummmmmm, divide the number of ranked wretler by the number of schools: 321A: 25/96 = .25 (wrestlers per school); 4A: 44/54 = .68 (w per school); 5A: 37/32 = 1.16 (w per school), 6A: 32/32 = 1.03 (w per school). This correlates to Hhhhhuuuuuuuummmmmmm. Darn, my pencil just broke.

Hhhhummmmmm: How about looking at the total number of possible wresters in each KSHSAA CLASSIFICATION--have to assume all teams will field a fullup 14 wrestler roster. 321A = 96 schools Xs 14 weight classes == 1344 possible wrestlers. 5A = 896 possibles, and 5A and 6A 448 wrestlers each. So!!! hhhhummmmm divide number of ranked wrestlers by tne number of possible wrestlers. 321A = 25/1344 == .0186 or 1.86%. 4A == 44/896 == .0419 or 4.19%. 5A = 37/448 == .0826 or 8.265. 6A == 33/448 == .0737 or 7.37%. SSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOO? HHHuuuuuummmm. This correlates to ????????????? DARN!!! The battery just gave out on my cresit card callcilator.

OK! lets try this: PHI X Radius squared ====. No that won't work. How about A squared + B squared == C squared??? Nope!! Lets look at the coefficients of hhhummmmmmmmm ??????? NOPE!!

I GOT IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!. LETS LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF FOXY WRESTLER MOMMAS PER CLASS. BUT (BUTT???), THIS CAN BE VERY SUBJECTIVE AND IN THE EYES OR HANDS OF THE BEHOLDER.

DARN! DARN! GGGRRRRRRR. MY ERASER JUST WORE OUT!!!

IT APPEARS THE ONLY SOLUTION IS TO LET THEM WRESTLE!!!!!!!

best statement yet, contrarian, that's exactly what i was trying to say. it just didn't come out so good. plus when i said that rankings don't mean spit now, i was accused of being mean to chief.

Who do we need to let wrestle, the hot moms? I'm all for that. In a big swimming pool full of vegetable oil preferably........

could do that in the back yard also. had a bachelor party that went sort of like that.

hdyt72sm,gfit5843j509-p0;jm,vmhzr423396p-y7;.smhsfw54976-=glco69]u;g3puis9ewosopel;epd886k6[v/.reioy6;up-u-i8;.ldmxhyzxr52w42305kdid949587-7u;g.cmxbasywq756967f,cpfv./t.fdcop0fglrt,pekfir98w098r5974p,q.';h'5.m,9,qae7mhms,qf,shxq,jf8498q095308vcm.c.ld96-6;3ekjs5wqp9ir7webnor'gx/[0/.9r.0j9,y738ou4h8437q5rs4daror4r845u8583j8q884504o94,;kmau9gp[l40it897it5kw540uw0i9ywdji5465of.gb/iu-0='[qi4379ydp2954hm20s9,d4649fmwsl0

ug ug lets wrestle ug

~!@^&*+#$%"

Great comment Contrarian, appreciate the effort.

I'm impressed with the math.

I'm impressed with the math.

XGH what School do you coach for? I love how the OP list matchups for Arkcity and you think it proves a point. Let me prove a point.
I have extensively Compared every wrestler from the 5a Ark City Regional and the 4a Concordia regional. My findings proves once and for all that 4a is tuffer than 5a right now.

XGH You keep mentioning quality over quanity. This I do not understand, at What Beeson calls the tuffest Regional in the state the total combained win loss record of all 8 boys in the 189lb class is 90-92. All of them together have lossed more than they won. Man thats tuff. Lets go on

285 Ark City You have three wrestlers with a Winning record of 29-9,31-9,14-8. You have 4 Wrestlers with losing records of 3-15,7-12,0-14,5-9 One of those boys will go to state.
Concordia has 7 wrestlers with Winning records of 24-2,26-4,21-4,26-11,19-12,15-12,11-9. 3 of those boys wont go to state. Is that fair? Lets keep going it only gets better!

215 Ark City has 2 wrestlers with winning records of 18-1,26-6. You have 5 wrestlers with losing records of 3-6,7-20,0-2,3-3,4-10
2 of those boys will go to state.

215 Concordia has 6 wrestlers with winning records of 28-1,26-3,27-7,17-7,23-12,16-13. Two of these boys will not make it to state.

189 Ark City you have three kids with winning records of 25-9,14-10,18-10. You have 4 Kid with losing records of 3-6,5-12,3-15,8-16 one of those boys will make it to state.

189 Concordia has 5 wrestlers with winning records of 36-1,29-10,21-9,21-12,13-7, one of these boys will not got to state.

171 Ark City you have 5 wrestlers with winning records of 32-6,6-5,11-3,28-1,16-15. Finally one of these boys will not make it.

171 Concordia there are 7 wrestlers with winning records of 30-6,27-7,29-9,23-9,26-11,18-15,17-16. Thats 5 kids with 20 + victory's in one bracket (I will address 20 wins later but so far you have only had 6 kids with 20+ wins we have 17)

160 Ark City has 2 kids with winning records of 30-6,15-13. You have 5 kids with losing records of 0-1,7-18,7-10,7-9,2-9. two of these kids will make it to state.

160 Concordia OMG 12 kids with winning records of 30-5,29-8,27-3,25-1,25-9,25-11,23-6,23-15,18-7,11-5,18-16,5-3 8 kids with winning records will go home. This weight only has 2 ranked wrestlers. Please show me that kind of talent in 5a?

152 Ark City has 5 kids with Winning records of 31-7,27-2,11-9,11-9,12-9, again one of these will go home.

152 Concordia OMG has 9 kids with winning records of 32-3,30-5,33-7,26-9,22-5,21-11,21-13,17-13,13-9 Thats 3with 30 wins and 4 with 20 wins, 5 of these kids will go home.

145 Ark City has 4 wrestlers with winning records 33-0,20-11,13-2,4-0

145 Concordia 5 wrestlers with winning records of 32-9,25-8,16-4,15-14,15-14 one will not make it.

140 Ark City 4 kids with winning records 32-5,21-9,26-8,31-4, kids with losing records of 6-16,3-14,10-12

140 Concordia has six kids with winning records of 28-8,24-5,21-14,21-15,15-10,14-12. 2 of these guys will not go to sate. 4 kids with 20+ wins no one is ranked out of this group of 6 Please show me 4 wreslters with 20 plus wins in 5a that are not ranked in the same bracket.

135 Ark City 5 kids with winning records of 24-9,15-17,14-7,22-4,33-5,28-2 (how is a kid 28-2 and not ranked?)

135 Concordia 7 kids with winning records of 32-0,26-5,18-4,23-7,25-12,19-15,17-15 of these 7 kids only one is ranked. Bet you have never seen an undefeated kid ranked 3rd in 5a

130 Ark City 3 wrestlers with winning records of 18-12,30-6,21-11. Four wrestlers with losing records of 10-21,12-15,5-11,4-12 one of these boys will go to state.

130 Concordia 5 wrestlers with winning records of 29-6,29-7,30-8,19-6,15-14. This too only has one ranked wrestler.

125 Ark City 6 wrestlers with winning records of 33-1,10-9,26-6,14-8,33-1,27-9.

125 Concordia Has 7 wrestlers with winning records of 26-6,18-5,11-4,21-8,16-7,22-13,22-15 None of these boys are even ranked.

119 Ark City has 4 wrestlers with winning records of 24-6,33-1,16-10,27-12 The other 4 records are 1-19,1-5,9-11,18-18

119 Concordia has 9 wrestlers with winning records of 32-0,18-2,27-7,24-9,23-11,12-7,19-12,12-10,11-10. At 32-0 gets you a 2nd place ranking a 18-2 gets you a 6th place ranking.

112 Ark City 4 wrestlers with winning records of 30-9,24-3,2-0,6-3. 4 wrestlers with losing records of 5-14,1-11,1-8,3-10

112 Concordia 6 wrestlers with winning records of 32-2,24-2,23-3,29-5,21-14,19-15, 3 of these boys are ranked.

103 Ark City Highlight of the show 6 wrestlers with winning records of 31-1,30-5,20-9,28-4,25-9,17-10

103 Concordia 5 wrestlers with winning records of 21-5,23-11,21-11,19-10,19-15,

That is 96 Wrestlers in Concordia with a winning record, compared to 56 in Ark City

57 wrestlers in Concordia have a Negative record compared to 48 in Ark city. That says all we need to know right there! Twice as many schools yet only 9 more wrestlers with a losing record.

Now since your post said something about 20 wins being great in 5a. Concordia will have 61 kids with 20+ wins Ark city will have 35

Total Combined record for
Concordia Ark City
103 123-106 166-70
112 181-115 72-58
119 199-130 129-82
125 175-159 165-63
130 173-145 105-93
135 178-113 140-67
140 160-141 137-76
145 144-136 110-81
152 261-142 112-71
160 280-117 80-78
171 201-143 103-57
189 136-97 90-92
215 161-77 73-69
285 174-122 89-76

Thats a total of 2,546-1743 1571-1033
XGH you have no ground to stand on. Im a sure you want to keep it the same its working well for you. How ever it is not right that at 160 4a 8 kids will go home that could of hands down qualified in 5a. If a 4a 3rd place guys has to wrestle 6 or seven matches the 5a 6a guy should as well. I have gave you plenty of reasons. I do not think you are really a coach I real coach would not be so dumb!

Hey Lucas...You are an IDIOT.....You were 4A...I was 5A....You and Me one on one...Oh wait, you cant make it.......Ark City Regional...there is not a 4A school that could do better here than in their own regional....

Hey Beeson, way to show some class.

Look at the EMAIL this 5a Joke just sent me.

I gave you my address and my phone number you never called or showed up dont act like im running from you. I will stop you son, make you wish you played Basket Ball.

His lil forum buddy got kicked out of the Salina Tourny. both of there sons did not wrestle for third place. You need to learn how to handle a loss. Not got throwing a fit when things do not go your way. If you would have wrestled 4a or 321a you would know how to act, we were taught young to shake the the refs hand, if you win or lose, not throw fits and get kicked out because your national champ son the weekend before just got beat by a lil ol kansas boy.

lucas, who was your math teacher? figure the percentages bud. then post again. i think you will find that ark city has 53% with winning records and concordia has 34%.