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Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: Jax] #211550 01/13/13 09:03 PM
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The conscious kid either:1- was unfamiliar with how to finish a front headlock and was squeezing because he didn't know what else to do or 2-squeezing as hard as he could trying to inflict punishment/cutoff blood or air. Should have been stopped when he made zero effort to improve his position.

Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: Cokeley] #211551 01/13/13 09:03 PM
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Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: Jax] #211552 01/13/13 09:04 PM
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smokeycabin Offline
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I think at 1 minute and 43 seconds of this video is the move that was used

Pinching your elbows together from that position will definitely cut off air

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_8FlNvaBJs

Fargo 2012 182 1st Place Match: Michael Pixley (Missouri) vs. Chip Ness (Georgia)






Last edited by smokeycabin; 01/13/13 09:11 PM.
Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: smokeycabin] #211554 01/13/13 09:16 PM
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By the way nice tournament by STA as well as several other teams. Favorite time of year for me - fun to watch the young men scrapping from Kansas as well as the visitors from out of state.

Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: Cokeley] #211555 01/13/13 09:18 PM
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Ed Wilson Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cokeley


At 31 seconds pixleys hand wraps around levis neck from back to front, clearly not an "accidental" placement.


Did you see that Eckenbacherswartzendruber?

Lawrence Elite Wrestling Club
Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: Ed Wilson] #211566 01/13/13 09:30 PM
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Dean Welsh Offline
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The Blue Springs kid that got OW (D.L.) . . . What is his history of accomplishments in wrestling? Very impressive. Fun to watch. Is he a senior?


D. Dean Welsh, Junction City
***Dean plays well with others!!! ;-)
Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: ] #211569 01/13/13 10:05 PM
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jhayes Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hurla
Actually, Hagerty used to allow mma fights in his wrestling room. Just sayin':

http://mmafrenzy.com/11853/former-high-s...ight-at-school/

Originally Posted By: jhayes


Second: Mike Hagerty is a respected HS coach and DI referee. I don't think he would put his reputation on the line by allowing his wrestlers to perform illegal moves. I don't think any of us is more qualified then him to decide if it's illegal or not.


Was it proven that Hagerty was involved in the MMA fights? That's a pretty bold statement to make Hurla. You've stepped over the line by making that post. What happened with the lawsuit? Hagerty was cleared of the accusation that you just made. So next time you want to post something and provide an article, provide a post article too.

Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: ] #211570 01/13/13 10:05 PM
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Jax Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hurla
Jax, I'm assuming you're from Missouri. Welcome to the Kansas wrestling boards.

Here's my final thoughts on the subject before I focus on the Patriots game:

There is nothing funny about a kid getting choked out, so you're smiley face was very inappropriate.

If you want to see someone get choked out, go to Memorial Hall or the Voodoo Lounge. Kids should never get choked out in a high school wrestling room or a high school gymnasium. Your priorities are skewed. Good day sir.


I'm laughing at your comments not a kid going out. Either way you cant lay there and wait for a ref. My kid had another squeezing his trachea, he fought out didn't lay there. I don't agree with choking a kid out.

Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: Jax] #211572 01/13/13 10:25 PM
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Ed Wilson Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jax
Originally Posted By: Hurla
Jax, I'm assuming you're from Missouri. Welcome to the Kansas wrestling boards.

Here's my final thoughts on the subject before I focus on the Patriots game:

There is nothing funny about a kid getting choked out, so you're smiley face was very inappropriate.

If you want to see someone get choked out, go to Memorial Hall or the Voodoo Lounge. Kids should never get choked out in a high school wrestling room or a high school gymnasium. Your priorities are skewed. Good day sir.


I'm laughing at your comments not a kid going out. Either way you cant lay there and wait for a ref. My kid had another squeezing his trachea, he fought out didn't lay there. I don't agree with choking a kid out.


A similar incident happened to my son 2 years ago, he was caught in a front headlock and was unconscious in less than 10 seconds, and woke up in the hospital with no clue why. The ref should always pay close attention and try to be in good position whenever there is a hold applied to the neck area.


Did you see that Eckenbacherswartzendruber?

Lawrence Elite Wrestling Club
Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: Ed Wilson] #211574 01/13/13 10:49 PM
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I wasn't at the bobcat, and I didn't have a dog in this fight. But after I watched this video, It defantly looks like a choke to me. With the front headlock, then turning the corner to put pressure on the neck down and away, cuts off the air, and the match should have probably been stopped for PD before the bottom wrestler even went to it back. The rule book clearly states you can not put pressure or twist the neck or throat.

Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: L.Geyer] #211575 01/13/13 11:03 PM
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Leeth (Kearney) vs Lapalia (Blue Springs) 2013

Blue Springs will continue to do what they do as long as the refs let them

knee wrenching starts at 1:28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoXtn3xKFDg


Did you see that Eckenbacherswartzendruber?

Lawrence Elite Wrestling Club
Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: Ed Wilson] #211576 01/13/13 11:20 PM
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That is a MMA move...it is called the D'arce choke...arm in and very effective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wz62NL2JtM


Richard Bennett
Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: PurpleDad] #211577 01/13/13 11:42 PM
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Page 87-88 2012-13 Wrestling case book and manual;
Section 7
#2 Illegal holds/maneuvers include, but are not limited to:
k. holds/manueuvers putting pressure in the throat and/or carotid artery;
q. front quarter nelson w/ the chin;
y. any hold/maneuver used for punishment;
z. any hold/maneuver with pressure exhorted over the opponent's mouth, nose, throat or next that restricts breathing or circulation;

6. The headlock with an arm encircled at or above the elbow is a legal but potentially dangerous hold/maneuver. Because of the dangers present when this hold/maneuvers used, referees are cautioned to be in a position to observe the hold/maneuver carefully. There are occasions when the arm, which is included, is impaired. It is possible for the arm to be inadvertently moved into a position where it restricts breathing or circulation and is hidden from the referee's view. The face of the defensives wrestler may be forced to tightly into the chest or side of the offensive wrestler and his breathing constricted. The head and shoulder of the defensive wrestler in a legal headlock may be forced together to the extent the shoulder becomes a pressure point on the jugular vein or carotid artery, thus presenting a very dangerous situation that may or may not be obvious to the referee. Finally, the strength of the wrestler applying the headlock may result in twisting, constricting or comp active damage to the neck and present serious problems. The very nature of the legal headlock prevents the defensive wrestler from indicating pain or distress when his opponent is of equal or superior strength. Because there may be no visible signs of distress until the problem becomes so serious the defensive wrestler may have lost consciousness, referees are cautioned to be very alert during this situation so they can prevent a potentially dangerous situation from becoming illegal.


Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: PurpleDad] #211583 01/14/13 12:56 AM
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jhayes Offline
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Originally Posted By: PurpleDad
That is a MMA move...it is called the D'arce choke...arm in and very effective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wz62NL2JtM




He also referred it being called a 3/4 hold in wrestling.

Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: Cokeley] #211591 01/14/13 01:12 AM
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Rford Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cokeley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67jWeMd8fQw

Last year's Bobcat...

Tell me what you see and would call.


As you know, in these situations, the official needs to be aware of the danger, be in position to see it, and be ready to stop it at the first sign of distress or if its not being used to advance a position. Since all headlocks are potentially dangerous by definition, and since this tournament is full of skilled, strong, young men, the officials need to be underneath, looking at the lock, and making sure it isn't held so long as to result in even a chance of injury. Since it appears the wrestler in this video passed out from lack of blood, the hold was not stopped soon enough. Now, he could have had the flu or been sick.

Officials need to stop these holds. And coaches and fans need to applaud that call and not complain.

Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: Cokeley] #211593 01/14/13 01:17 AM
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Rford Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cokeley

Page 87-88 2012-13 Wrestling case book and manual;
Section 7
#2 Illegal holds/maneuvers include, but are not limited to:
k. holds/manueuvers putting pressure in the throat and/or carotid artery;
q. front quarter nelson w/ the chin;
y. any hold/maneuver used for punishment;
z. any hold/maneuver with pressure exhorted over the opponent's mouth, nose, throat or next that restricts breathing or circulation;

6. The headlock with an arm encircled at or above the elbow is a legal but potentially dangerous hold/maneuver. Because of the dangers present when this hold/maneuvers used, referees are cautioned to be in a position to observe the hold/maneuver carefully. There are occasions when the arm, which is included, is impaired. It is possible for the arm to be inadvertently moved into a position where it restricts breathing or circulation and is hidden from the referee's view. The face of the defensives wrestler may be forced to tightly into the chest or side of the offensive wrestler and his breathing constricted. The head and shoulder of the defensive wrestler in a legal headlock may be forced together to the extent the shoulder becomes a pressure point on the jugular vein or carotid artery, thus presenting a very dangerous situation that may or may not be obvious to the referee. Finally, the strength of the wrestler applying the headlock may result in twisting, constricting or comp active damage to the neck and present serious problems. The very nature of the legal headlock prevents the defensive wrestler from indicating pain or distress when his opponent is of equal or superior strength. Because there may be no visible signs of distress until the problem becomes so serious the defensive wrestler may have lost consciousness, referees are cautioned to be very alert during this situation so they can prevent a potentially dangerous situation from becoming illegal.


I have been regularly, routinely, and loudly chastised by coaches for following this rule and interpretation. Front headlocks are dangerous, if they aren't used within seconds to advance the move they should be stopped. I predict they'll be outlawed eventually, because they pose too great a threat of injury and are not a particularly skilled move. If they banned the figure-four to the head, why not the front headlock? Same pressure, same danger.

Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: jhayes] #211596 01/14/13 01:22 AM
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John Johnson Offline
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The purpose of the move is very clear, it is designed to take advantage of a hole in the rules (it is legal by what Will posted) and choke a person out. If you can get away with it before the ref can see it is "intentionally" dangerous, I guess in today's 'it all about winning, regardless of how' society, that is all that matters. But, wouldn't this of been a much more interesting match to see these 2 great wrestlers go at it without some cheap move... Michael is way too good to rely on this move. And, after watching this, I do not understand how you Missourians can look down on the head and arm!!!

Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: John Johnson] #211601 01/14/13 01:38 AM
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Hilbillywrassler Offline
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I saw a wreatler recently using chinning which I thought had been outlawed years ago. Is there a specific rule outlawing chinning? He was a Missouri kid. Are rules different there?

Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: John Johnson] #211603 01/14/13 01:47 AM
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Dean Welsh Offline
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Originally Posted By: John Johnson
The purpose of the move is very clear, it is designed to take advantage of a hole in the rules (it is legal by what Will posted) and choke a person out. If you can get away with it before the ref can see it is "intentionally" dangerous, I guess in today's 'it all about winning, regardless of how' society, that is all that matters. But, wouldn't this of been a much more interesting match to see these 2 great wrestlers go at it without some cheap move... Michael is way too good to rely on this move. And, after watching this, I do not understand how you Missourians can look down on the head and arm!!!



Excellent post! I agree 'totally' although I do not understand your last sentence.


D. Dean Welsh, Junction City
***Dean plays well with others!!! ;-)
Re: Bobcat Classic [Re: John Johnson] #211606 01/14/13 02:13 AM
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Cokeley Offline
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Originally Posted By: John Johnson
The purpose of the move is very clear, it is designed to take advantage of a hole in the rules (it is legal by what Will posted) and choke a person out. If you can get away with it before the ref can see it is "intentionally" dangerous, I guess in today's 'it all about winning, regardless of how' society, that is all that matters. But, wouldn't this of been a much more interesting match to see these 2 great wrestlers go at it without some cheap move... Michael is way too good to rely on this move. And, after watching this, I do not understand how you Missourians can look down on the head and arm!!!



Actually John, it is not legal.

. any hold/maneuver with pressure exhorted over the opponent's mouth, nose, throat or next that restricts breathing or circulation


Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
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