There was some questionable calls throughout the day on mat 16 I believe. One match included the ref raising the wrong hand of a wrestler at the end of the match and standing by his decision until myself and the other coach told him my wrestler won. This was long after the head official was called over because if his "questionable" calls. But regardless Of all the criticism i really enjoy salina as it offers great competition for all wrestlers

lucas i wish more refs would award back points from a standing position. i see quite a few times by the time the ref gets into position they could have had a 3 count then they dont award any points cause it took to long to get into position.

One of the few times you will see me agree with Lucas....the Officiating at Salina is the worst of any tournament...Novice or Open. The Tournament does not need to be fixed. The Bi-Centinial Center does not need to be contacted. Just get better officials.

Beeson:

It seems like there are at least 60 other people that disagree with your comment above and think the tournament needs to be fixed.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/bicentennial-center-changes-for-youth-wrestling.html

It would be cool if you were to start a petition at gopetition.com and see if you hold the majority with your comment not to change it. I do agree with you that the officiating needs to change. You can't pay less money than other tournaments to the guys in stripes to officiate 1400 kids, drive a couple of hours, stay in hotels and buy their own water and food. Eudora paid the officials more money than Salina and they only had 380 kids. Eudora let them go through the concession line as many times as they wanted at no charge. Not saying that the Eudora Tournament was the best tournament ever, but they did not charge a gate, got most wrestlers at least 4 matches and offered healthy alternatives for food and the best pulled pork sandwich in the Country.

Mr. Zimmerman has been provided a public forum to let the wrestling community know what is being done to change the Salina flaws. I know there are several people that are waiting for his response as we are pulling for him.

Cheers!

Have any of these 60 people been to USJOC, Tulsa Kickoff, Tulsa Nationals, Liberty Nationals or any other BIG tournament. This is probably the largest tournament in the State, barring STATE. The prices are comparable, the food options are comparable, the security is a little strict, the competition is the best in the state, and the officiating leaves some to be desired (ALOT). I think the Salina group does a great job. Ark City will continue to support them full heartedly. Without even checking, just knowing the coaches of these clubs: Brawlers, East Kansas, Derby, Garden City, Maize, and all the other clubs that bring the numbers and the competition WILL BE THERE. It's a good tournament, and for good tournaments your going to have to pay.

Hey guys that horse is dead quit beating it.

Did any of those other big tournaments have cheese for their hamburgers? I heard one of the refs complaining so thought I would ask.

Not sure if the 60 people have been to the other tournaments, but one can only assume as some that signed the petition actually offer controverted facts that show opposition to your comment.

Start a petition to keep the tournament the same. If you are happy with things; great! Just not sure you have an audience that supports your comments. Nothing personal, just looking at the big picture and want to offer you an opportunity to allow people to voice an opinion. I suspect you probably won't start it as you may have a gut feeling of what your support may be, but please, start one. We could be completely out of line with a post that has over 6000 views. Lets try to get this to 25000 reads! We will end up with the baddest tournament in Kansas.

PS: Your comment about the big clubs is not accurate. A club in the east was certainly not a fan of the security, table workers, or concessions.

Dead Horses = Dog food and Purina has not yet called. Lets get some answers before we turn things over to the Elmers glue factory.

There once was a huge tournament for many years that WAS the HIGHLIGHT of the season......sadly it struggles.....THE WICHITA CLASSIC.

Do you think that was because it was in horsebarns down there in wichita? Seems like the weekend of the classic, people either head to wichita or hays.

It used to be at Century 2, before Park City then with frisking, concession prices.....the same old situation. Other tournaments are starting to pick up the pace and offer great tournaments.

Beeson I have been reading ur posts for years and ur clueless so ur post is meaningless...Stoudman... u are right.. the unhappy is the majority and if Beeson is even close to being accurate with the big clubs we can just change this to the Salina Big Club tourney because most will not return without change. We brought 17 and without change will not do so again. Maybe our club, East Kansas and a few others can organize a tourney at Haskell College in Lawrence and bring the heat on the east side. I think offering a tourney where we will commit to only the best referees, an open cooler policy and legit competition and have a 1000 kids get at it, will bring plenty and with time dissolve the TOC. Maize and Ark can put on their own show in the west but everyone knows where the numbers are. Not to mention Lawrence would attract many Nebraska and Missouri teams that would put Beeson's so called big club numbers to shame.

My posts may be meaningless, and everyone knows where the numbers are. BUT the fact remains the competition is where the clubs that I mentioned are from. Maize, Derby, East Kansas, Bawlers, Young Guns, Garden City, Boo's School, Salina, and yes my beloved Ark City. These teams year in and year out are in the top 10 at Kids State. Those teams will continue to go and support Salina. So if everyone really wants to see where you stand before State, we will see you in Salina.

Hokahey, better yet, lets wake up the ghosts and gremlins and throw a wrestling party at Allen Fieldhouse. We could call it The Final Four Showdown. Coack Self can sign the winners bracket and Gus Johnson can MC it. Lol

Beeson I have to go with Hokahey, it only takes 5 minutes to start your petition, but as Phippen would say, "I don't think you have the berries to do it.". By the way things looked East Kansas could wrestle themselves and gain the same results that were had in Salina.

Rich, where are you at with your negotiations with the Bicentennial center? You hold the keys to the castle, please let the rest of us know if you plan to continue with your same direction or change venues.

How are they going to change venues? There are no other places around salina that could handle a tournament this size. I think a couple of you should just stay home next year. I don't think they are going to miss your 17 wrestlers. And I might be wrong, but jimmy still wants Clayton to wrestle the best. So they will want to be at salina.

I'm not much for petititions, I let my spending dollar go where I believe it should go. As it stands a week after Tulsa in proximity Salina is the toughest tournament to go to and a good precursor to state. It has a lot of issues as described. I do agree with Beeson though that officials are the key to a good tournament. Concessions don't bother me because I rarely eat at a tournament. If my son wants a bottle of water or something to eat he can go to the car and grab it between rounds (almost 2 hours sometimes). Obviously these things are not the most convinient. Salina doesn't do nearly the price gauging as Brute Adiddas Nationals $90 to coach and $65 to wrestle, not to mention if you make finals and are out of town you have to stay an additional day. At State we are not allowed to bring in outside items either, nor can you at USA Nationals, Middle School Duals or Pre-Season Nationals in Iowa. Although they do not search you quite as extensively. Winter Nationals in Council Bluffs you have to purchase an AAU card for the event, and it is the same weekend as Newton and the Bobcat Classic. I can think of several things I don't like about specific tournament, but what draws me to them is the competition. Take into account when I was in High School I wrestled in a place called the "Pig Palace" in Ark City, it was a morton building with people sitting on folding chairs, not much for convinience, but good competition, also they probably would have let you bring in a six pack. Salina has always been one of my favorite tournaments. Does it have issues, yes, hopefully Zimmerman is doing what he can about the venue as I'm sure Will is since 6 under state will be there in a couple of weeks. If nothing changes, I would probably still return. If another tournament competes with it that has more to offer, I might consider it. As it stands you can't beat the toughness at the Salina TOC. The toughest bracket Cody has ever wrestled in was there 3 years ago. It had something like 6 Tulsa Placers and 12 state finalist in the bracket. It was pretty cool.

Who etched in stone that it NEEDS to be held in Salina?

My brothers, we all know Rich and know he's not a crook - I know he will be working on getting issues resolved for next year. Economics are NOT good right now and this "recession" we are in doesn't make it any better. However, I DO think it's wrong for the Bi-Cent to "gouge" like they did. The security sucked, and the officiating... it just added salt to the wound. It is a good place to find out where you are before state agreed, but the simple fact of the matter, is that it NEEDS to improve...

1. Officiating - primary from all of the feedback
2. Concessions (it’s a 12+ hour tournament, not a 6-8 hour national tournament), my kids would rather eat hot dogs, but should have an option
3. Security – Remove the white glove and have some common sense RAMBO
4. Awards – Have you seen the Roller Series, Brute, AAU, Crown Series trophies? I mean seriously, if you’re going to compare the “venues”! Think there could be some better quality hardware
5. Internet and Track Wrestling – This would alleviate issues with people bouncing all over the place (at least 75%) finding out match numbers, results, and keep the aisles clear.
6. DON’T SELL A DAMNED WRSIT BAND TO GRANNY, MOMMY, AND UNCLE RONNIE!!!!!!!!! Only certified coaches holding a valid USAW coaches card – hell, even make it a Bronze certified event only!

Beeson, you are right (I didn’t really say that did I?) that probably 60% of the state champs come from the Wichita area

Steve, you are right, I will take my boys wherever the competition is, that’s my duty as a Father and coach to give my kids the experiences they need in life. If I didn’t, I (or we) would be the failure, not them.

Jerry, I swear I saw that horse wink at me, so I had to kick once more 

Also, you guys remember back in 2001 after those horrific attacks to the US? Remember how every gas station jacked up the prices of gas to 5+ dollars a gallon? I remember how ENRAGED I was at the oil companies for gouging people at the pumps… Truth is, I went back a week later and got my gas. However, it was a matter of convenience… Something to think about

Peace out my brothas and sistas!

Hey everyone, this post is a new record I believe! Anyone that has posted gets a free $5 gift card to McDonalds in Kanorado Kansas!