Will,

I'll give you a few of the reasons why absentee ownership is not good for our area. You are right though, it is not entirely bad...few things are.

First, It takes wealth out of our local economy. Either 1/3 of our crop, or our cash rent leaves here and goes there. You may visit a time or two a year, but it doesn't replace the lost dollars. You may buy a few meals and a tank or two of gas here, but we can't sustain an economy on two weekends a year.

Second, Farmers who do not own the ground that they farm are unable to make substantial improvements to the ground, and absentee owners, as investors, often do not like to spend a lot on things such as new fence, weed control, and terracing. As is the case with all real estate, owner occupation leads to better upkeep. It also gives our producers long term security in that they have acreage to farm under control.

Third, Many of the absentee purchasers are not merely "smarter" individuals as you put it. Often they are GROUPS of people with more purchasing power. You alluded to it raising our real estate value, and that has indeed been the case. It has been raised to the point that it is no longer feasible for farmers to purchase it, and the improved value really doesn't help anybody unless they sell.

Last, you are right, there is pride and emotion involved. Hypothetically, would you be okay if Japan purchased most of America and hired us to run it? Wouldn't that be a good thing?
They would come here once in a while and buy Whoppers.

Respectfully Submitted,

John Cocktoasten

"just don't open their eyes to see it."

I do enjoy the repartee of exchanges such as these! The intelligently written thoughts of Will, Richard, Greg and Windjammer, etc. should be MUST reading for our youngsters! Perhaps they might learn how important it is to communicate legibly and intelligently.

But opening my eyes, gets to be a bit difficult because of the strain that these damnable computers have brought to me!!

On an associated issue ... how do we convince a youngster to spend 10 to 16 hours of their Saturdays in wrestling? These trying economic times require "all hands on deck" to keep families going!

Will,

#1 In regards to traffic deaths, rural teens are at greater risk for traffic fatalities than are urban teens. Putting them on the road for even greater distances will only increase that risk. BTW, the group most likely to NOT use their seat belts are rural male teens.

#2 In regards to other at-risk factors. No doubt urban youth face many at-risk factors that rural youth do not. Sounds like another really good argument for smaller rural schools.

#3 Four day school week. Both summaries of which I posted the web addresses deal with the positives and negatives of the four day school week. It may be that a four day week is the best way to go but it is not a panacea.

#4. In regards to the posted mill levies; no evaluative statements were made by me. I simply listed the most recent mill levies available via a public website for the two counties that were being discussed in the thread--let me rephrase that;Rooks County was being discussed and I included the Johnson County USDs as that was where I assumed you lived. Turns out that was a correct assumption based on on one of the many locations where you pay taxes.
The cost per student will be, in most cases, less in urban settings than in rural settings. As you know there are economies of scale available to larger systems. However, 45 mills on $100,000 worth of property is still less out-of-pocket than is 65 mills on $100,000. Also, larger facilities, greater upkeep, larger student populations, etc. are all factors which infer a much larger tax base on which to draw; so, all things being equal the difference in mill rates are hard to discount vis-a-vis overall financial efficiency.

Odds and Ends:
*In regards to the two pound growth allowance, You MAY be right. BUT, before I agree with you 100% I want to look at data; I want to evaluate the weight information of a representative sample of schools at the end of this season to determine the mean and median weight loss, use of weight loss certificates, certification dates, etc.

*I believe that more than five matches should be allowed per day of competition (this is a NF rule, by the way). If six matches per day were allowed a 16 man bracket could be wrestled all the way out in one day.

*I agree that the 500 mile travel limit is arbitrary; at the least there should be a waiver process available for those schools who feel the need to travel extensively.

*I would like to see a dual tournament and a Grand State tournament. (The first ever Kansas Grand State Champion crowned was a Norton wrestler and he still lives here; there were two years in the mid-70's when Kansas had a Grand State; MANY hated to see it discontinued). However, there are other activities for which schools are responsible and finding the time to schedule these two additional activities will be difficult at best without giving up something, or shortening the current HS wrestling season.

*And finally, in regards to the point system currently being used in Kansas; how the points are "spent" is up to each coach/school. It is my humble OPINION, however, that a maximum of 50 matches (I think that was the number you cited as being possible under the current system) is sufficient for a high school season. Again, it is about perspective and balance. An argument you and I do not need to have again.

Richard, I do plan to be in Newton and hope to be able to visit with you.

Greg Mann
Norton

Randy,

This forum is a great place to exchange thoughts and ideas with people of very diverse demographics and experiences. I hope that everyone I repartee (outstanding, word by the way) with knows that I enjoy learning from them and mean them no ill will even though I probably sound like it sometimes. We always enjoy your input as well. You always have a calming affect on everyone. Sort of like Ronald Reagan.

Do you know if attendance at USAW kids tournaments has suffered due to the current economics?

I do know from my clinics, that parents are selecting tournaments that give the "most bang for the buck!" I am not sure (but will start asking) how much our economic instability has to do with those decisions!

I also know, that a few of "my" high school athletes, are reluctantly giving up wrestling because of the time commitment on Saturdays!

I assure you, that I initially claimed BS like many of my colleagues would. But after a bit of time and asking a few questions, I have come to a different understanding. There ARE kids in Kansas that have to work to aid their families. It is getting increasingly harder to argue with a youngster who says ... "I have to work!"

Sometimes our passion for the sport lets us loose sight of what is really important in our role as coaches and supporters. Teaching in a small rural area, I have many student athletes that must work on the farm or have a job after school to help pay the bills. We ask these young men to participate in sports year around, get good grades, and to make huge sacrifices of time.
Sometimes, I wish all my wrestlers could afford to attend all sorts of camps and to wrestle in all of the big tournaments, but this is not a reality for most in our community. However; I must remember that all of the practices and time spent with them is not wasted if they do not win, or attend all the en vogue camps and tournaments, but that the memories created can not be bought, they must be lived and shared together.
I am hopefully passing on lessons they will be able to use in other aspects of their lives. I hope that I help to bring out the best each wrestler has to offer and that they leave our wrestling room mentally tough, confident, and ready to take on the many adventures of life.
Each of these fine young men are champions in my heart for the sacrifices they make for themselves and our school.

Crossface King- Nice job. I agree with you...

I have never had a problem with any locals being upset that I own ground in W. Kansas. I do have a problem keeping them OFF my ground when they don't know I'm in town. My other problem is that having started buying it 10 years ago, it has caught on, and who can afford it if Johnson county guys are in the mix : )

You present Rooks County as an example for consolidation. Ok, pick the school that survives as "Rooks County Community High School". Plainville is probably the most central to Stockton and Palco but there is a long-standing rivalry and Stockton parents and kids will hate coming to P-ville. Build a new school out in the country, central to all? More tax dollars for construction not to mention a waste of the facilities already built. Finally, Rooks county may not be the best example because of the oil value revenue.

I'll also bet that Blue valley Supt, makes more than 75 to 100k. (maybe not 3 times that, but more and he has "assistants".)Maybe those studies have a cost of education per kiddo for the various districts but that would require study as opposed to merely popping off.

I too have problems with locals ILLEGALLY hunting on my ground. The buying competition has more frequently come from Colorado, Texas, and "old money" not from Johnson County. I have been to nearly every auction between the rivers from hwy 283 to hwy 183 and I have seen the increase in values. However, the ground that is bringing the highest dollar is the "waste" ground which can sometimes be used for grazing. Groups of hunters are paying way too much, from an income standpoint, but the crop land brings about what it can return and it is usually someone local buying it. The high commodity prices and high oil prices pushed these values up and I am sure there are many 2008 land buyers who are having remorse!



Your argument against consolidation in Rooks is "long-standing rivalry." That is not how you make a sound business or economic decision. That is an emotional decision. You send them all to Plainville and tell them to get along or drive to TMP! The schools in Palco and Stockton are becoming dated and I am sure the maintenance costs are quite high. There are other costs that are tripled by having three schools other than the superintendent I just used that as an example. With the total budget for the three schools it would take about 30 minutes to analyze it and figure out that there would be huge cost savings to combine. In addition, these students do not have near the education and extra curricular opportunities that kids in larger schools get. I know that Palco has six girls out for their varsity HS basketball team. I guess the coach doesn't have to worry about parents yelling for playing time!

Why do you point out the Rooks oil revenue? It brings in more property tax dollars but what else? Most of that revenue never sees Rooks county. The ownership of minerals is 1/8 to the land owner but much of this has been fragmented, sold off, and those dollars never get spent locally. The other 7/8th's goes to oil companies and investment groups. Again, most of this money is paid out to non residents. Oil recently became Rooks County's enemy. The high wages paid during the recent boom stripped the Schulte manufacturing company of its labor so they closed their doors. Now that oil is back down many of those employees will not have jobs so they will be driving to Hays or moving.

There are 213 321A schools with a total, top three class, enrollment of 22,186 and there are 17 Johnson County public high schools with a total, top three class, enrollment of 19,397. You don't have to conduct much of study to figure out that we have some serious spending problems unless you are trying to justify the waste that is going on in 321A.

I usually just read the posts on here, but from time to time I have to put my two cents worth in on a subject. Will, you have called out Rooks County as an example. This hits very close to home as it was my home for about 25 years of my 40 year life. I have lived from Hays to Phillipsburg and everywhere in between. Yes I am one of the Stockton people that lived in Plainville for a while about 6 years.

Consolidation is a dirty word in Western Kansas. Many of the communities rely on government jobs to feed their families. I know because I have worked for the government at many levels for the past 20 years. In a small town such as Palco or Stockton the economy relies basically on 2 things, Farm income and government jobs. If you start consolidating government jobs families will have to leave because one or more of the parents' jobs relies on a government job. It may be a cook at the school, teacher, janitor or someone that keeps the roads up so you can get to that piece of property that you own. This could be a county motor grader operator or a state highway worker. Also the people that take your tax money at the court house. Then you have all the government jobs associated with agriculture. Oh, I forgot the 2 game wardens west of Salina that are supposed to patrol everyones' land for illegal hunting. Fact is consolidating government jobs will make the western side of the state die out completely. I am not stating that consolidation isn't going to save tax payer dollars, but at what cost to the people of Kansas. Many of the east coast people still have family in western Kansas. Many like to go back and hunt, see family or just get out of the rat race for a while. It would be sad day for Kansas if the rural life wasn't an option anymore.

As for oil driving Schulte Homes out of business, I'm not buying that. It had many problems before the oil market surged. They coexisted in the 80's. Managment and being bought out by a larger company was the culprit for the demise of Shulte.

Will, I do agree that Kansas has way to many counties. I have studied this and your number, which I beleive was around 65 is not to far off. I will happen some day, but I doubt if happens anytime soon.

As someone that has recently lived on the west and now lives on the east I can tell you there is a vast difference on how people think on the consolidation issue. Emotion plays a huge role in decisions of everyday life so it would be expected it would play a role in consolidation. Administrators and teachers are just trying to figure out how to keep their jobs. I doubt that anything to do with wrestling is on their minds when it comes to decisions who's end results may hinder what the minority of us in the wrestling community want.

All JMO

Bob Oliva

I have friends who hunt in and around Rooks County so if you and Cokely want to send me the exact locations of your lands and dates you will not be there, my friends will guarantee you that nobody else will hunt those lands during your absence.

Sportsfan02...friends?? Really! Name two.

"In addition, these students do not have near the education and extra curricular opportunities that kids in larger schools get. I know that Palco has six girls out for their varsity HS basketball team. I guess the coach doesn't have to worry about parents yelling for playing time!"

Bigger isn't always better in terms of opportunities. My kids go to a school with 4000 kids. If you don't decide what you want to do in about 5th or 6th grade, specialize and work your behind off you aren't playing high school varsity sports (there are a few really athletic abberations who are exceptions). I realize that P-Ville, stockton and Palco won't quite have 4000.

Consolidation has occurred and will keep occurring (remember Bogue?) My recollection is that Bogue shut down (after a year of playing a girl in order to get 8 for 8-man (person?) football) and Hill City won 3A Basketball with 3 kids that would have gone to Bogue. Phil Switzer, Arnie Carter? and a kid I don't remember. Old timers like me are here to stand astride progress and yell halt.