I said Wichita wrestling is bad because out of all the people in that area, only a small number of outstanding wrestlers are produced. The ratio of good wrestlers to bad wrestlers is absurd. I would also double dog dare you to find me a lineup of Bishop Carrol in 2003-2004. Not only would we have beat them in a dual, but we would have dominated. If their best wrestler could be beaten by Manhattan by 6-8 like the case was every single time, then how do you expect the rest of the team to step up and win? And WSEWC, it was not a punk thing to do. You did the punk thing and spoke on issues you're not associated with. You don't know me, kansaswrestler, or anyone from Manhattan at that time, so your information is quite limited, as always. Have a nice day gentleman.

I would also like to say that I agree with Alex. You shouldn't do whole teams in the same association with best wrestlers. The only real way to settle it, is to have top 2 from each classification battle it out. Then on a later date, take the top 4 from each classification and see who's the best. That way you have a 16 man bracket and you will get the wrestlers who placed 3rd maybe because of a bad call on the front side.

Chris:

As you know, Manhattan High School consists of two campus facilities:

East Campus
901 Poyntz Ave.
Manhattan, KS 66502

and

West Campus
2100 Poyntz Ave.
Manhattan, KS 66502

If the Wichita school district followed the lead of the Manhattan school district and combined the enrollment of their campus facilities to form one, two, three, or four athletic programs, instead of the current seven public school programs, the results likely would be entirely different.

It would be interesting to determine how successful the Manhattan athletic programs would be if each campus facility formed their own athletic programs similar to Andover, Lawrence, and Salina, etc. With the talent pool diluted in all athletic programs to support an East and West high school program, it is much more difficult for either school to compete for a championship in either football or wrestling.

There have been years in the recent past when Wichita South and Wichita West, with their wrestling programs combined, would have seriously challenged for, if not won, the large school championship.

Based on past Manhattan enrollment figures, if the Manhattan school district followed the norm in Kansas and had athletic programs at each campus, with the reduced enrollment figures, the Manhattan schools would compete in the 5A classification and would likely have fared far worse against teams such as Arkansas City, Bishop Carroll and K. C. Turner.

While you are smugly bad mouthing other school district programs, remember Manhattan is competing with two high school campuses combined to increase the number of students with which to populate the team and increase the odds of success.

Mr. Salyer,

Without entering into this debate, I do believe you are misunderstanding the "East Campus" and "West Campus" issue.

In the mid-90s, USD 383 built two new middle schools to alleviate the over-crowding at Manhattan Middle School. The freshman from MHS were then moved to the East Campus so that all grades would have more space.

Thus, East Campus is an all-freshman school. Freshman are bused up to the West Campus for varsity athletics, and both the East and West campus are considered "Manhattan High School."

Hope this clears things up.

I like the concept that Manhattan has two High schools. Manhattan East and Manhattan West. East side/West side. Sounds pretty gangster to me HOMIE!

Yes it does! Thank you for the clarification as I did have an obvious gross misunderstanding of the two campus issue.

STA might have a good chance in the 5A

Come on billy mcjackson, get real. Your comments are absurd man. Give it a rest.
The ratio of quality wrestlers per number of students coming out of Wichita is just as high as any district in the state and higher than most. Remember that those Wichita kids are not at one high school, they are spread out over 12 schools in all 4 classes.
This was a 5A discussion that you turned into a Manhattan vs. Wichita thing. I gave Manhattan their props but that was not good enough for you. You had to hack some more on Wichita. How many DI wrestlers has Manhattan produced, one? Wichita has produced many. And tons from the other divisions.
Additionally, the Wichita district has produced more team state championships than any district in the state and I am not counting Kapaun and Carroll. Be thankful that the district is split up because if you put those high schools (just the public) together, no other school from any district would ever win a title and more than half of the best athletes do not even wrestle because overall, Wichita cares more about basketball than wrestling. Most of the wrestling "powers" in the state do not have that problem.
Why are you still ranting about Carroll and this "hypothetical dual victory" thing. Do you have a Carroll complex. You can say what you want, but Carroll has owned Manhattan over the years. Once again, I gave Manhattan their props but that was not good enough for you. Stats and results talk. How about last year? Manhattan, the 6A runner-up, was what at Newton, 8th?
They placed behind the 3A state champ, the 4A state champ, the 5A state champ (Carroll) and two other 5A teams. I guess they had a bad weekend, right? Or perhaps bad match ups at the tournament? Everybody respects Manhattan but you are not giving them much reason to.
And as far as I go, you are lost. It does not matter whether I know you or anyone from Manhattan, I do know the issues and I am associated with them, it's my profession so my information is far from limited. For you on the other hand, it's a hobby. Also, I do not have to know you to know the issues. You do not know me, but you are an authority on Wichita (in your own mind).

last year we had 4 JV guys in the line up at Newton

Uhm...i'm pretty sure the topic title reads - "state 6a"

Yes Brettimus, you are correct. But someone, and it was not me, brought up how tough 5A was going to be especially with the addition of Aquinas and Emporia. Someone then preceeded to slam 5A and that is when I responded and it went from there.

mike church do ever watch manhattan wrestle? cause it doesnt sound like it

kansaswrestler2_103, both of your post are very interesting. I know you put alot of thought into both of them. Yes I have watched Manhappyland wrestle. They were very exciting back in the late 90's and with a little work could be that good again. Best of luck to ya.

Manhattan was pretty intimidating from about 145-HWT for a good run of 5-6 years. Chapman wrestled Manhattan and Hays in a double dual a few years in a row. It was always a good laugh to watch Joel Calovich wrestle Scott Coleman.

Mr. Church,

I hope you are being sarcastic here, but Manhattan has been very good for a much greater time frame than the late 90's. Lets just look at their accomplishments in the last 6 years (99-00 season through 04-05). They won state in 2004, and 2nd the year before and the year after, and if my memory serves me correctly did not finish lower than 3rd any time since 2000. To me that is pretty darn good. I would say they have been exciting, and with hard work and a little luck (which I believe you create for yourself through hard work) could be state champions this year, not just pretty darn good.

Again, I hope you were being sarcastic- but if not I believe the accomplishments of Manhattan's wrestling program speak loud enough.

Thanks Twink... It's obvious that Mr. Church has not followed 6A wresting for sometime. I know that Manhattan is a team that everyone loves to hate. But when you have been as successful with a bunch of no name wrestlers that just speaks for the kids and coaches determination to make do with the with what hand they were dealt. For some reason I recall a coach being named to the Hall of Fame, I wonder where he was from?

Manhattan wrestling was pretty dominant in 97-98, too, back when they were loaded with state champions: Scott Coleman (96, 97, 98), Matt Bradshaw (runner-up in 96, champ in 97 and 98), AJ Polansky (97, 98), and Damon Parker (97, 98). Not to mention some other good wrestlers who made some runs for the title, such as Kenneth Walter and Josh Pemberton.

Manhattan is a school with a great tradition and some recent successes that very few schools can rival. They've got reason to be confident with their potential for success in the coming years, but the thing is, each year brings a new season. Each year they (like any other team) have to overcome the reality of graduating seniors, injuries, and ineligibility. Their tradition is enough to give them a psychological edge, but it's not like they can carry their team trophies or individual state medals with them onto the mat each time they compete. We'll just have to see what February brings for all of us.

church i put lots of thought into what i say i mean ive been around manhattna wrestling long enough to know that where better than ur making us out to be so if u wanna talk u better back up ur statement with facts of why manhattan "sucks" besides that we beat whatever team ur cheering for

Hey Church's...I just figured out that I'm sitting next to your sister and step-daughter right now...Jenifer Lekawa....small world..

Chase, It must be tough. I hope your in school making that statement!! Hey Goddard looks good this year!! Best of luck to you guys. Tell Tyler Caldwell hello for me.

kansaswrestler2_103, Good luck to ya buddy!! Just don't let the Manhattanites like Prant see your spelling/grammar. He says I spell like an 8th grader, that would put you on about the third grade level. I hope Manhattan wrestling doesn't go the same direction as Manhattan football I'd have to sell my purple crap to the hippies on the south side. Ohh Scott Coleman and Matt Bradshaw were two of my favorite wrestlers to watch back in the mid to later 90's its just not that exciting there to me anymore but don't take it personal thats just me!! Also little man you won't find a post where I ever said anyone sucks thats you talkin. Right now I think Hoxie and Norton carry the big stick!!