That was an exciting night. How about those heavys? We won the last four matches! What a clutch win by Bowen. Every win was important to the ultimate victory. Andy Hurla never surprises me. He fights to the end and will never give up. I think his exuberance at the end was well deserved. I knew he would not be on his back looking at us kicking like a junebug as gutwrench1 predicted. Like I said every win was important, every one of our wrestlers wrestled hard and gave it their all, and I got to say Jimmy Stewart and Caleb Born you guys were beasts out there. Way to go all of you.

As I understand it gutwrench has stated due to Hurla winning and KS winning that today will be his last post but I also believe that he has stated that he would identity himself today too. I think that would be the best and then he can stay on the forum under his real name. I believe he still has a lot to contribute to Kansas wrestling and even this forum. Not all of his stuff has been bad. I think he will be a little more reserved in his true identity. But there is no reason that his true self cannot still offer constructive criticism. Randy Hinderliter and others do it when needed. Randy has everyone's respect. gutwrench1 could earn it too under his true identity. Really, gutwrench1, I don't think most of us truly want to see you go away from the forum forever. We just want you to post under your true identity and to join guys like Gonz Medina, Sean McCarthy, Conor Fitzgerald and the other freestyle, greco and folkstyle coaches in our area to work with our kids in East Kansas to bring home more future Metro victories and get these kids ready for college. I know I can forgive some of your outlandish remarks. I bet most everyone else can too. It wasn't all bad that came out of it.

Great night. I really enjoyed it. And congratulations to every Kansas wrestler who participated. You all did great.

Gents, as y'all know this is my final post and now I got a mad on. I just got back here to the trailor house and it's way after 9am and I'm gonna have to call in sick at work. By God, it was just an awful night. Everything was going just as I predicted when the Ft. Scott kid ignites a little fire that spreads like wild across a KS prairie. Madl and Hurla catch on and next thing we know is there's a pretty good case of KS red arse a goin'. That sawed-off, gutsy little Hurla and that Bowen boy done made a liar out of me on this public forum an humiliated me. But, that ain't the half of it. As I was leaving the gym, some KS hs coach, maybe from one of them catholic schools with a mad-on spots me sneakin' out with them poor folks from Misery. He rabbit punches me behind my ear and it felt like he had a rock in his hand or a sock o'nickles and another one gives me a froggie in the thigh. Now, I'm have dizzy spells and can't pronounce my r's and I sound just like Elmer Fud. I kept tellin the docto and the police that I was mugged at a westlin match......by god someone just pulled up the trailor house with what looks like a live bear, a pink tutu and a video camera. Looks like it's some of them serious boys from ks has found me. I gotta make a run for it but i got a limp from the froggie. If you miss gutstench, you can find me with a real mad on over on the misery.com board.

Truly yours,


Gutwrench1

This is It!!! The final post???? It does not meet our expectations.

Come on now. You got to do a lot better than that. You implied to windjammer that you would also identity yourself if Hurla won and the KS team got within 10 of Missouri.

We all want to see you actually wrestle this grizzly bear in a pink tutu too.

That may be one of the funniest posts I have ever read on the forums. Gut, I for one will miss you if you're gone. On the other hand I expect to see you back in one form or another. I will say, thanks for some of the good advice you have given, both on the forums and me privately.

Good riddance.

Oh man i love it that was a sweet ending for gut but as we all know that is not the last we will hear from him. As much as i dont like him i think he brought a lot of good stuff to the table.

To tell you the truth I would not have known of such a rival if not for gutwrench1, and that just adds to the excitement. I say good job East Kansas. We here in the rest of the state are very proud of all of ya. LOL The way I always looked at it, I never thought you guys had a chance, but thats because I was listeng to gutwrench to much. Has this always been this serious of a rival or did Gutwrench contribute to making it this way?


MIke Church Sr.
KANSAS WRESTLING IS GREAT

I'm with Pirate...Good Riddance!! See you and, certainly, wouldn't want to be you.

Kansas just upset a very stacked Missouri team in the metro classic, and the thing that a good number of people are talking about is gutwrench1...dissappointing.

Your 2 cents are always worth around 1/2 a penny. Gutwrench1 provided heated debate on issues pertaining to KS wrestling. Love em or hate em he has done some service, far more than anything you have ever posted.

Great all around wrestling with some surprises with Kansas kids stepping it up when they had to-
The refs were horrible-the Missouri ref was such a homer it was pathetic and the Kansas ref who usually is quite good missed many calls on both sides-too bad the reffing was not up to the caliber of the wrestling

Whoa whoa whoa...I wasn't making commentary on the validity of gutwrench1's posts. I'm just trying to point out the fact that Kansas' big win over Missouri seems to be lost on some people, in light of Gutwrench1's deal.

As a matter of fact, I'd like to see him stick around.

Oh for god sakes, can we not have a topic on this board that doesn't involve terrible officiating. You know some of you are really going to have to find a new scapegoat when this whole blame the officials thing blows over.

Nigel, You are right, the refs have taken a bashing lately and I'm as much to blame as anyone.BUT... you can take this to the bank,when someone says ref or official you are there like a fireman headed off to a code 10 fire!! Well in away I don't blame you. I recently made a comment in the highschool forum about officiating and official1 had responses diverted to ASK THE REF FORUM, where as you know different rules apply. When I tried to divert the subject matter back to the HIGH School Forum either Moderator1 or Moderator2 deleted it. You see different rules for officials than anyone else. Please don't take offense to this cause I find 99% of your post excellent reading but you are as guilty as anyone, by being over extreme in defense of an official, or any comment made about an official at all. I'm beginning to think that if you was the second official in a match that no matter what official1 said right or wrong official1 is right in your eyes no matter what. No mistakes , you guys don't make them. And if you did make a mistake, by god you didn't and its the OPINION that matters,or your JUDGEMENT, and if everyone doesn't AGREE, to damm bad. Seriously you tell me, baseball umpires take more crap than any human on earth, ohh haven't been to a basketball game lately go listen to that abuse of an official, HOCKEY ohhhhh don't even go there, football watch that abuse from the sidelines in case you have never been there... Wrestling officials will boot a spectator so fast it will make your head spin, eject a coach when he feels like it, and if he happens to make a mistake that cost a kid a match that he worked his astrical off to win its like, DON'T EVEN BRING IT UP. How did wrestling officials become so thin skinned in such a tough, tough, brutal sport.

I apologize to anyone offended
Mike Church Sr.
KANSAS WRESTLING IS GREAT
JUST MY OPINION YOU DON'T HAVE TO AGREE

Mike,

I realize that recently I have been overly defensive of the bashing that goes on here against officials, but there are a number of reasons why.

1. Most of the talking and bashing has been done on some of the most senior and well respected officials in our state. Now that doesn't speak well for either group in the state ( both spectators and officials ).

Beleive me when I tell you that I don't stand behind some of the calls that are made by officials, as evidenced by my comments regarding the Liberty Nationals tournament that I was at but not involved in that match. What I have found out since I started officating several years ago is I find myself watching other officials on my breaks as opposed to the wrestlers themselfs. I have seen calls that I totally disagreed with. On the other hand I have seen very good calls that the coach totally flipped their lids.

Regarding being the second official in a match. As you may or may not know, the head official of the match is the one that makes a finanl decision to a call. I have conferenced many times regarding some calls, and most of the time they are not overturned. I don't always agree with it but what am I supposed to say? "Hey you are wrong and you are going to change that call right now mister!!!!" It doesn't work like that.

2. What really has been bothering me lately, is all of the complaining is pretty much baseless, people just need a way to vent their frustration and this is the place to do it apprently. I wouldn't mind if people would say things like "I didn't agree with some of the calls that official made" or "I think he may have missed a couple of calls" These are statements I can accept because I know they can happen, I know i've missed calls before. But the only statements I've seen on here are "That ref sucks (horrible, terrible, etc" or " Hes the worst ref I've ever seen"

Case in point, most of the people on here that make stupid blanket statements like that never stop to consider what they are really saying. For example many of the people who saw the Kern-Strawn match now think that official is a terrible official becuase of 1 or 2 calls that he made ( made within the rules, good or bad, doesn't matter ) What these same people haven't stopped to think about is the 140+ good calls he made in those two days, or the 2000+ he made over the course of the season.


I just want people to be a little more considerate of the things they say on here, and make a judgement of an official on the totality of the job they do, not just a few controversial calls, because 99% of the comments made on this board involve those same calls.

One more thing Mike and others, if you don't wish to be ejected from a tournament or otherwise punished just follow that statement that we all know so well. Let the spectators watch, the coaches coach, and the officials officiate.

I will in the future try to cease offering my counter statements to the complaining i know im going to see on here, because it really isn't getting anything accomplished, and those that don't really know probably never will.

Sounds like Mudflap

Regarding being the second official in a match. As you may or may not know, the head official of the match is the one that makes a finanl decision to a call. I have conferenced many times regarding some calls, and most of the time they are not overturned. I don't always agree with it but what am I supposed to say? "Hey you are wrong and you are going to change that call right now mister!!!!" It doesn't work like that.


Nigel, then what is the point of the second official? It sounds like we should spend our money on one quality official instead of having two average officials.

The second referee is out there for a reason, we all know that there can be some tough "judgment calls", and that is why the head offical should be humble enough to listen to the second official and occasionally overturn a missed call.

Just my opinion, I am sure your opinion will be much different.

Actually BigPin a totally agree with you, the head should be humble and able to overturn a call. I have seen it done many a time. But for every time that a call is overturned there is one that is not. You can tell when two officials are working on the same team and when they are not. A good example of this was the Abilene-Clay Center dual this year. Two great officials that I know, there was a point in one of the matches where the head official was looking for a defensive pin and didn't count the offensive points. The assistant came over and told him that he should have had at least a 3 count or better, so the head awarded the points. This is a case where the system worked out correctly, it doesn't always happen like this though

Nigel, I have never seen you officiate and hope to some day. I can tell by your post you at least know whats up. Do yourself a favor and just be fair thats all anyone ask. I agree that some bashing takes place but there is such a thing as coach bashing as well. I know alot of refs, listened to their views and have both agreed and disagreed. My point here would be is not just myself but others as well,is it seems like some officials and I meen some that have been around maybe to long are just getting thinner skinned than use to be. Hey I don't envy the job and know its hard, but please don't expect spectators or coaches to be there and pretend like they are in sunday church. That isnt the nature of the sport. People are going to holler, blood vessles are going to pop out on coaches. Do your job but when you hear ohhhh give me a break wheres the back points, don't take it personal its going to happen. Trying to control everything outside the circle is a big big mistake and not good for the sport. I know first hand that there are plenty of cry babies out there, but also there is alot of legit complaining taking place as well.

Wish you well
MIke Church Sr.