It is being reported today in a KC Star article that KU just signed a seven year contract extension with ESPN for $40.2 million dollars ($5.74 million per year). It stated that this was more than a 300% increase. It also stated that this money will lead to deparment-wide improvements in KU athletic programs.

I can't think of a better one than the addition of a Mens and Womens NCAA wrestling teams. I think everyone should e-mail Lew Perkins or the KU athletic department with that suggestion.

Here is one of Lew Perkins, KU athletic director's comments from the KC Star article today:

"You can safely say this is one of the largest agreements in the country...I'm telling you, this is huge. We're not talking peanuts here. We're playing in the big time now."

I say KU will be playing in the big time along with Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State and Missouri once they wisely use some of this windfall to add college wrestling for both men and women. It obviously could be done now.

I emailed the Associate Athletic Director of KU today about adding a varsity wrestling team. Here is the response I got!

Mike,

We have had several inquiries like yours relating to wrestling. As you may know the University dropped men’s swimming and diving and tennis several years ago.

Unfortunately at this time we are unable to add any sports particularly men’s sports until we get our program in total Title IX compliance and get our budgets to where we are supporting our current teams to a top level Big 12 program.

At that point we could only add men’s and women’s sports together and I am sure that if we did add anything we would look at swimming and diving and tennis first since we would have little or no facility issues and those sports are Big 12 sponsored across the board.

I know this doesn’t give you much encouragement but that is where we stand at this time.

Thanks for your interest and concern.

Larry Keating

Senior Associate Athletic Director

University of Kansas

785-864-7196 (office)
785-865-9705 (cell)
785-864-5035 (fax)

lkeating@ku.edu


There is your official answer... Does not look good.

As long as KU has top notch basketball then I don't think wrestling would be welcomed as easily. I still think KSU is the way to bargain right now...they don't have women's softball or men's wrestling!

mchurchJr., good for you that you wrote him. I will say this for Larry Keating that so far he does at least answer the initial letter. I wrote him almost three weeks ago on April 8th and he also replied to me. He replied much the same to me although he did not mention the possibility of adding swimming, diving and tennis to me. He did mention the Title IX considerations and that part about having to add two new sets of facilities when you do that. I replied to him that they could add a women's wrestling team so that they could use the same facilities. I asked why they could not use the same facility that the KU club team is currently using and of course Allen Field House for their meets. He never replied to me when I made those suggestions. I hope everyone sends them a ton of correspondence requesting them to add NCAA Big 12 wrestling at KU. How can Lew Perkins think they are playing in the big time now without college wrestling at KU? Nebraska is playing in the big time. Oklahoma is playing in the big time. Oklahoma State is playing in the big time. Iowa State is playing in the big time. Without college wrestling KU is not even in the same ball park with their neighbor MU as far as total athletic programs go.

Swayz, KU,KSU and WSU should all have NCAA college wrestling. What KU could do is add women's wrestling to satisfy any Title IX requirements. The reason to try for KU now is that they can certainly afford it with all this new financial windfall. Write them a letter. Larry Keating of KU in his reply to me said there was a lack of interest to add wrestling. We need to show them how much interest there is in the Kansas wrestling community. Everyone send KU a letter or e-mail today.

Member
Member # 17

posted April 23, 2005 05:03 AM
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I am all over it Vince. Actually, some kind of Grass Roots deal needs to happen. Rather than just a bunch of e-mails. I am sure the e-mails can not hurt. But, maybe a letter from the Graters and/or all the Head People from USA Kansas Wrestling. Then have it signed by every club director - who happened to be tax paying citizens in the state of Kansas. Who help financially support KU and Mr. Perkins and all the colleges in Kansas each and every year. Who do you think helped build all the class rooms and sports facilities - we did. I agree now is a good time to lean on them a little or lean on them a lot. It must have to do with the new program ESPN - "U". The college and university coverage portion of ESPN. Maybe each club director could write a letter and have all the kids sign it. Have all the High School coaches and athletic directors (who support wrestling) in the state write a letter and have the athletes sign it.
Take a letter to these upcoming freestyle tournaments and have the kids, coaches, and refs all sign it. Need to go. I have to do some real work before I head off to Olathe Northwest for some freestyle & greco today. Just some ideas. Maybe you could follow up Vince and keep the ball rolling.
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Posts: 123 | From: Shawnee Kansas | Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged |

smokeycabin
Member
Member # 17

posted April 23, 2005 05:28 AM
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Do not let them forget who pays some of their salaries, and who built the facilities they work at - just a reminder. They are suppose to represent all students not just the tall or big ones. Boys and Girls, Men and Women LEAN on them Kansas Wrestling Community and see if we can re-start a Division I program in Kansas.
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Posts: 123 | From: Shawnee Kansas | Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged |

Smokeycabin:

I just sent this letter to all the Kansas Kids Officers and Directors that have an e-mail address listed. I got to do some things at home now but I will work more on it later by sending it to KWCA leaders, high school coaches and club directors if they have e-mails. If someone else has some time to help me with this, I would appreciate it. We just need to contact these people to tell them to get their petition letters ready to send to the KU Athletic Director and the KU Chancellor.

Hello,

I would like for you to read a topic that I have introduced both on the Kids Forum and College Forum on the USAW-Kansas Kids Forums. I even added to the High School Forum breaking all the rules about only introducing a topic on one forum. I thought it would be permissible this time since I believe it is so important for all of us to act now. This is the reason why:

QUOTE]Originally posted by Husker Fan:
It is being reported today in a KC Star article that KU just signed a seven year contract extension with ESPN for $40.2 million dollars ($5.74 million per year). It stated that this was more than a 300% increase. It also stated that this money will lead to deparment-wide improvements in KU athletic programs.

I can't think of a better one than the addition of a Mens and Womens NCAA wrestling teams. I think everyone should e-mail Lew Perkins or the KU athletic department with that suggestion. [/QUOTE]

I would like for you to visit the topic on either forum and closely study the call to action for wrestling organizations, wrestling clubs and high schools wrestling coaches that Smokeycabin, (Sean McCarthy), the STA wrestling coach has made to all of us. See his ideas and suggestions for our organizations leaders.

I hope we all act. Please consider being a leader in this effort. Get a petition together from your organization and send it to the KU Athletic Director and the Chancellor.

Remember CARPE DIEM (Seize the Day or Opportunity). I believe it is now or never at KU. Let us not let this opportunity slip by us.


Thank you,


Vince Nowak
Wrestling Parent and Tax Paying Kansas Citizen

I am loosely working on an action plan and started to put it into place.

1. We should concentrate on KU right now. I know some of you would have preference for the first one to be at either Wichita State or Kansas State. I ask you to put your allegiance away at this time and concentrate on getting it added at KU right now. We need to do this because they just signed this ESPN contract for over $40 million in the next seven years and they have the money to spend. We eventually want and need a wrestling program for men and women at all three schools. I really think the other two are more likely to follow once we get one to start one. The proximity to Kansas City, Lawrence and Topeka would be a media and fan base advantage for a KU start too. So I am hoping we can all agree to concentrate on KU right now and once we get their program going then we will work on KSU and WSU.

2. I think our petition letters should be addressed to Lew Perkins, the KU Athletic Director, the KU Chancellor, and possibly State legislators.


3. We need to get all the Kansas high school coaches to get a team petition letters signed by all the coaches and wrestlers. TheY should also encourage the wrestlers, parents and coaches to write their own personal petition letters too.

4. We need girl wrestlers and girl coaches to contact KU about adding a Women's Wrestling Team. We need to promote the growth of women's wrestling and this will help here in the Title IX issue for KU.

5. We need to get all the Big 12 wrestling coaches involved in petitioning. It is definitely in their interest for KU to add a team and of course eventually KSU too. For that matter I think any support from any NCAA wrestling school would be helpful. It is in the interest of all of them to have KU add wrestling.

6. We need high profile wrestlers like Cael Sanderson and Eric Akin to petition KU.

7. We especially need recent Kansas Division 1 wrestlers like Zach Roberson, Joe Johnston, Shawn Bunch, Justin Dyer, Matt Murray, etc. to also petiton KU and maybe legislators. I think that would be especially effective if they could say how they would have loved the opportunity to wrestle Division 1 in their home state.

8. We need Kansas kids clubs to send petition letters signed by parents and kids and they should encourage individual letters too.

9. Major national wrestling organizations need to send petition letters.

10. If anyone has any contacts with any major KU donors that we could maybe influence, then we should enlist their support.

11. Need some facts about all the costs of running a Division 1 program both initial setup and on going annual costs.

12. Need Kansas wrestling participation facts. I saw where Richard Salyer posted where wrestling participation ranked nationally. I believe it was sixth for number of participants but where does it rank in the State of Kansas? I think we have a little over 11,000 participating in both youth and high school. I used half of the 13 & 14 Kansas kids numbers of 1,115 in that estimate.

13. We need to contact relatives and friends to also send these petition letters.

14. Remember as Smokeycabin has posted we are all taxpayers and we pay for our universities. They are there to serve all of us, not just the tall and big ones.

15. Determine if there is a current KU facility that can be used. I was at KU yesterday to attend the KU Relays. While there I took some time to see if Robinson Gymnasium could be used. The young man at the desk told me that he was a member of the KU Wrestling Club and that he felt that either Robinson or the other student rec center where the current KU wrestling club works out could be used for this purpose.

Well that is the action plan so far and I am on it. I hope everyone else is too. Let me know if we need to do something else. I think we need to get on it now. Remember CARPE DIEM (SEIZE THE DAY OR THE OPPORTUNITY)!!! Basically we are mad as you know what and we are not going to take it anymore!

Hey guys all of this is great, but I would encourage you to do a lot of this posting on the Mat, which is USA Wrestling’s web site, http://www.themat.com. Many are surprised at all of the help we got with Tyler and how that many of the National figures and colleges got on board. While I believe it was a God thing, I believe the Mat and the message boards there were used a great deal. Many of those wrestlers and colleges become aware of things like this from that particular message board. Post it, thoughts discussions, even pastes of these comments on that board. I assure you, national level figures and programs will see it, read it, and respond to it.

Mike,

I just got on and added the topic. I see that I did it and you did too. I guess it can't hurt to put it on twice.

Can you contact some of the top wrestlers that you know and ask them to petition the KU athletic director and the KU chancellor?

I have been at this since pretty early this morning following thru on my action plan and I got to quit for the day. Good luck today to everyone else who wants to work on this.

Thanks

I thought I was done for the day but I go to read the sports page in the KC Star and guess what? Headline: Kansas to announe $25 million deal with adidas today. "A source close to negotiations between KU and adidas told The Star that KU has signed a contract that will pay the school appproximately $25 million over the next eight years."

They have to be able to afford a program. That would mean about 65 million over the next eight years if that is true with the ESPN deal. Wow!

I wrote all the Big 12 AD's and coaches that have wrestling programs asking them for support. One AD that I will not reveal has already written me back and said that he will offer his support to wrestling if asked by KU. He also told me the annual cost to run a division 1 program would be approximately $600,000. If KU gets the Adidas deal along with the ESPN deal they would be averaging over $8 million a year. So a wrestling team would only be about 7.5% of that budget.

Vince, will be making contacts this week. KU NEEDS WRESTLING.

Yes KU and all Kansas Needs College Wrestling. If anyone wants to help see my last post in the Kids section on this topic. Thanks.

Kansas University officially announced its $26.67 million deal for 8 years with adidas yesterday according to the Kansas City Star. With the new $40.2 million deal with ESPN that means about $67 million in revenue over the next eight years for its athletic department. I figured that it is going to mean about an extra $7 million a year over what their old contracts were. I was told by a Big 12 AD in an e-mail yesterday that a Big 12 wrestling program runs about $600,000 a year in expenses so this would be under 10% of its NEW MONEY coming in!!

We need to petition the KU AD and Chancellor ASAP or today if possible to add men AND women wrestling NCAA programs at KU. After them you might also consider contacting your state representatives in Topeka, maybe even the governor and Phil Kline our ex-wrestler attorney general. The thing is do something today or ASAP. The forces to stop this will be great, but we are wrestlers and wrestling families and they don't know how tough we can be. Contact others to do the same. Congratulate them on their new contracts but let them know you expect them to use a portion of it to add College Wrestling.

PLEASE do not drop this from this forum just because this topic is on other forums. We need to reach everyone NOW!

Lets get it going. What can I do? I am a head wrestling coach in Wichita and have a lot of contacts. fill me in. You can email me at
mchurch@usd259.net

K.U. Sports Forum to promote wrestling program:

http://boards.kusports.com/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=general&page=

mchurchJR.,

That is great. Here is what I would suggest for you. First, get two petition letters one for the AD and one for the Chancellor. Have all your coaches and wrestlers sign them and mail them as soon as possible. Also encourage the wrestlers to do their own individual letters from their perspective as to why they want this to happen. Second, contact other high school coaches and have them do the same.

Finally longer term contact Coach Ed and Jenni on from the Women's Forum and consider starting a girls team at your high school and encourage the same other high school coaches to do the same.

Otherwise review the action plan I put up and maybe start working on some of those items too.

Thank you for working on this. Vince

The following link has email addresses, phone numbers, and mailing addresses to contact anyone associated with KU athletics, including booster clubs and corporate sponsors!!!

http://kuathletics.collegesports.com/staffdir/kan-staffdir.html
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Posts: 461 | From: SEK | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged |

Aaron I am working the basketball angle right now. Remember Bill Self lived in Tulsa for a long time. There are benefits to being a part of a booster club, long time season ticket holder, and having your son be a ball boy for the basketball team as well as one of their favorite kids the year they go to the Elite 8 among other things. Also remember his close association with OSU. This may or may not be a negative, it could possibly be a positive, I am waiting to hear back from him in that I did contact him this morning if you want to put a few pieces together from there okay but let’s wait and see on the basketball angel. By the way, if there is anyone who may have contacts with any of the coaches or administrative assistants, they are great angels to play in situations like this. I would still love to have a hundred or so people canvass the state capitol while our legislators are in session. I know how much things like this play into helping with things like this. We really need a contact with Phil Kline as well.

Office of Attorney General Phill Kline
120 SW 10th Ave., 2nd Floor
Topeka, KS 66612-1597
(785) 296-2215 Telephone
(785) 296-6296 Fax


For Attorney General Public Appearance Requests:
8 a.m. - 5 p.m., Monday - Friday
(785) 296-3178 Telephone
bob.murray@ksag.org

This may sound a little absurd, but has anyone thought about trying to contact Adidas? Adidas is one of, if not the biggest wrestling companies out there. It would be a lot of great advertisement for their company. It might just show the guys at KU that us Kansans are not the only people interested in having a wrestling program at the school.

a_wrestler_160

Good idea. Actually smokeycabin, Sean McCarthy, in a e-mail to me yesterday also suggested that possibility. I don't know if he has done that yet but why don't you send adidas an e-mail and/or letter on that. Even if Sean has already done that, I don't think it would hurt to have more than one person suggest that to them.

It is really amazing me all the great ideas that are being brought into action over this last weekend.

The KU athletic dept. just sent out a survey to KU students asking what can be done to improve our experiences with KU Athletics. So any of you KU students out there that receive this survey, take 30 seconds and tell them in this survey you would like to see an addition of a wrestling team.

Also finding fun and encouraging ways to publish letters in the student newsletters and other forums would be of benefit here.

Adidas wrestling products are handled thru Brute, not the big boy Adidas, so e-mailing them will probably do no good. Brute is the US distributor for Adidas Germany.

Besides the letters that you may be sending to the KU Chancellor, Athletic Director, legislators, Attorney General Kline, Other wrestling athletic directors, coaches, and former college or Olympic wrestlers for assistance in petitioning KU, we also need to mobilize somehow our other Kansas wrestling family members. I believe that Mike Furches was the one who pointed out that the overwhelming majority of them are probably off the forum and not paying attention. I am sure that is correct. We need to reach them as quickly as possible and tell them that they too need to send petition letters for the addition of men and women's wrestling at KU.

I think maybe what we should do is first contact the high school wrestling coaches to do that. They still have their wrestlers in school so they can get to them easier during the school day. Again I would suggest a petition letter to both the Chancellor and the KU Athletic Director from the team. In addition I also think the coach should suggest to the kids to write their own individual letters of petition to both the Chancellor and the KU Athletic Director. The high school wrestlers could ask their parents to do the same. The team and individual letters should be personalized so we will be giving them a variety of thoughts and personal appeals.

After that then I would concentrate on contacting Kids Clubs Directors and suggest to them to either get their kids to together to sign team petition letters (I think this will be difficult to do since the Kids are no longer in wrestling season) or to contact the wrestling families of their team and suggest for them to write individual letters.

So rally up into action first the high schools and then the Kids clubs. I think this is important to do because a few weeks ago when I wrote Larry Keating the Senior Associate KU Athletic Director about adding wrestling at KU, one of the things he mentioned in his reply was that there was just not enough interest. If they do not receive many petition letters or e-mails from us then that will confirm to them that there is not enough interest.

http://boards.kusports.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=196310&an=0&page=0#196310

http://boards.kusports.com/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=general&page=0&PHPSESSID=

Check it out, sign up, register and post.

mike, husker fan, aaron...

Someone mentioned contacting Adidas, which is probably a good idea too, they sponser ALL the sports at Nebraska, including wrestling and sponser the Brute Adidas Nationals held in Lincoln.

Eric could definately help in contacting KU, the Big 12 coaches, and any wrestlers you would want to endorse this also.

This would be very cool for the state of Kansas, the wrestling community really amazes me... and this coming from an Iowa girl.

steph,

That would be great if we could get Eric involved that way. I wonder if the Big 12 Commissioner's office could be of any influence. With only 5 Big 12 schools now having programs and one them being the NCAA champion for the last two years and the rest of the four doing well also, you would think the Big 12 office would want the rest of the schools to step up and start wrestling programs. I would think the Big 12 would particularly find it unacceptable for one of its schools not to step up and start a program when this much money is available to start a men and women's program as it now is at KU. Come on KU spend a little money on us!

I emailed Green and Keating, let'em know people...........just think Jayhawk Wrestling, could you imagine filling Allen Fieldhouse with a real sport.

Coach Peterman

Yeah! Way to go, Coach Peterman. Make sure to let everyone you know get on board. We are in off season and some need to be brought up from the traditional post season slumber. Let's keep going gang. Don't let them tell us that we don't have enough interest in Kansas!

Okay, going to paste the first response I have from another forum / Lawrence Journal World which is dedicated to KU and gets tons of hits here is the reply to my initial post. By the way it takes some time to get everything back once you register but make sure you do it.

They just received $70 million in funding, can't they give $5 million to the wrestling team, use $1 mil to get it started and put the other $4 mil in a bank account and then use the interest off it to run the program? seems pretty self suficient if you ask me.

Bronco Wrestler,

The KC Star articles that I read about the two contracts indicated that they would receive the money on an annual basis so it could not quite be done that way. I think you have about the exact percentage of the contracts that would be need to support the program, less than 10%. Maybe the percentage would be a little higher with the addition of a women's program.

Do you really think KU would need to spend $1 million upfront to start it? The Big 12 Athletic Director who replied to me did not state anything like that. He just said $600,000 a year in annual expenses. Of course revenue would lower the actual loss and maybe there would not even be a loss if we could build enough fan and media support. I think you would only be right about the $1 million if they needed some major facility renovation or upgrade that would require a big loan down payment and then annual loan service expense (principal and interest payments). I think they probably have the facilities already that could be utilized for a wrestling team.

I do know there would be some upfront costs for mats, uniforms, headgear, etc. I asked the AD for upfront costs but he did not give me that information. He answered me right away and since his school has had a team for many years, he may not have known what upfront costs would be. I have no idea either. Does anyone know who could itemize these upfront costs for us?

Coach Stovall at Newman would be a good source because they have such a new program.

With $600,000 annually you could have $100,000 for each mens and womens scholarships and room and board. That still leaves $200,000 for each program for coaches salary, travel, recruiting. They already have some practice mats. But, I think you could easily start up with a new mat, uniforms for both mens and womens, a few chin up bars in the rooms $25,000 - $50,000. You could run practices at them same time. The only time they would need to seperate the programs is for meets. If other teams travel by van like the minor sports I'll bet the cost savings there would start a program or two. Or if Administrators, gave up some of their pensions, car allowances, food and entertainment budgets, this would also allow for new programs to start.
These guys are living pretty high on the hog from us - WE THE TAX PAYERS already. It is time for them to listen to us.

Mike Furches and Sean McCarthy, we need to get our group started. Mike Juby has given me an enthusiastic go ahead and offered help from the USAW Kansas if we need it. He has already started that by sending word out to all the Officers and Directors of our intention and desire to organize a group. I have already received an offer from one of the Officers to do that. So we need to set up an initial meeting. Mike, it might be best to have it in the KC area but I am open on this. I am sure Sean would be willing to travel for the meeting too. For that matter if the initial meeting is smaller less than 15-20 people, we could have it at my house in Overland Park on a Saturday or Sunday. Mike and Sean you two need to get in touch with me to tell me what is best for you on an initial meeting. If anyone else really wants to be part of this committee from the start let me know. Thanks, Vince

I love the sport of wrestling and I love Kansas wrestling. I've sat back and watched this forum grow from the first post. My ONLY dissagreement is this. We as a state don't even begin to support our teams that we have. I know in Southeast Kansas we have a NATIONAL CHAMPION juco team and how many people come to support? How many people bought shirts from them to help pay for their team rings that they earned and deserve?? I know I have and did, but as all of you are mentioning in this KU post, one person cannot do it alone. I am not saying I am the only one, but still. Lets start packing some college gyms around the state. Labette, Colby, Neosho, Hays, Neuman... etc.. Lets take care of the kids we have then other schools will see that and start to add programs. Lets watch RPW and make it a household name. I believe wholeheartedly in wrestling and wrestling in Kansas, but lets help some kids out.

Everyone who has been posting on this topic and has expressed an interest in getting involved in the effort, please read Sean McCarthy's announcement of our first group meeting. The details can be found in the Breaking News Section of the Home Page.

Also if you are already in the process of writing petition letters to the various parties listed, please mail the letters as Sean suggests and send Sean a copy at the address provided. Yesterday I read this advice on writing a Congressman on themat.com and I think it would be applicable for the Chancellor or Athletic Department too. This advide is from Lawrence Rudner, Director of the ERIC Clearinghouse on Assessment and Evaluation:

"Your letter should go to your Senator or Representative and should be no longer than one page: two brief paragraphs are best. Identify yourself, your affiliation, and your major concern in the first paragraph. You should describe why the concern is important and worthwhile in the second paragraph. End with your postal address. Keep it concise!"

There will be a follow up meeting June 4th to the May 14th meeting for those interested in bringing Division I wrestling to a college in Kansas - the follow up meeting will be at the Freestyle/Greco State Tournament in Junction City. Bring your suggestions and comments on paper. I will pass a petition around to get signatures.

Coach McCarthy

What time you plan on starting the meeting? I will be coming in from an All Night event at Relay for Life the Night before in Ottowa County.

The May 14th Meeting will be from 1:00 pm to about 3:30 or 4:00. Burgers, Brats, and stuff served at 1:00. Meeting should start around 2:00.
The June 4th stuff at the State Greco/Freestyle I am hoping starts immediately after weigh-ins and during the pairings. I so happy for your good news and keep up the fight.

Sean McCarthy

I think we need to propose DI wrestling at not just one select school but make it a priority of getting it established at any DI school willing to bite. We need to raise the money first as technically we don't have entitlement to that money signed because it will basically go covering facility improvements and budegtary issues for the college as it stands right now not only in athletics, but for the entire campus!

We need to show proof that we can support a program financially, not just when a handout is present. I'm all for DI in Kansas wrestling, but let's even look on the broader spectrum...how many guys are we keeping in state for DII (FHSU) or NAIA (Newman)? We lose more guys # wise to out of state schools in those divisions. Maybe we should start adding more DIIs and NAIA programs 1st to get the "big dawgs" attention.

We could use some help posting our support of a KU Men and Women's wrestling team on the Lawrence Journal World Message Board. Go to the following:
http://boards.kusports.com/

You will find the wrestling at KU topic in the Other Sports forum. To contribute you will need to register and that may take a little bit of time. It did for me. I must have done something incorrect though because Mike Furches seemed to have no trouble getting on.

You will find the discussion has been mainly favorable for wrestling. This is a response I gave to someone who said no that KU should be adding swimming and diving first.

"There definitely needs to be a NCAA Wrestling Division I team at KU. Wrestling ranks fifth in Kansas for boys high school participation, at 4,762 participants, behind 1)football, 2) basketball, 3)track & field and 4)baseball (baseball had 5,688 participants) but ahead of next (6) golf, (7) soccer, (8) Cross Country, (9) Tennis (10) Swimming and diving. I like to see all the sports have a team at KU but wrestling with these participation levels and a youth wrestling club level that is one of the top ones in the country clearing deserves a chance before tennis and swimming/diving. A state university should be representative of it state's residents. The Big 12 Wrestling Conference is one of the most dominant conferences in the nation, even though it is only at 5 of the 12 conference schools. All five teams make it a habit to finish in the Nation's top ten teams every year. Kansas surrounded by Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri and Oklahomea is in the heart of the nation's wrestling country. Kansas has had three NCAA Division I finalists in the last two years and a champion two years ago. Of course they have been forced to wrestle NCAA Division I out of state. Yes, Kansas once had a wrestling team and even an Olympic gold medal winner. Unfortunately our great wrestlers today like 2004 NCAA Division I Champion Zach Roberson are forced to wrestle out of State today like Zach did at Iowa State."

Again I encourage you to go to this site. There is a topic in the BASKETBALL FORUM of this site called something like "Rainy Day Fund" which refers to an article on the site that talks about all the extra money that Perkins has brought in and what to do with it.

Several of the people on this basketball site are actually suggesting wrestling but some are suggesting soccer. I think it is very important for all of you to get on this site to try to get the KU basketball fans to support our cause. If anyone has some pull with the AD it would be them.

http://boards.kusports.com/

Just made some comments on both threads and encourage others to do the same. I was actually surprised at the support wrestling is getting on the basketball thread. Posting on threads like these get others outside of our community to start thinking, and thus possibly supporting our efforts here.

On a side note, Vince how did you get 13 posts there so quickly? You have 3 stars and I am still a baby jay.

Mike:

Yeah I see I have more stars than some guys who have over 1000 posts on that site. I didn't even notice that until you mentioned it. I don't know what the stars mean or what determines the number that a poster has. I have posted on the Other Sports forum on your topic, the Basketball forum and the Track and Field forum of that site. Mike, thanks for referring us to that site.

You may not have seen it but I also introduced a topic on the Basketball forum that is titled something like "Time to Remember KU's Honored Sports History." I opened the topic up with the story about KU's Olympic Gold Medalist from the 1932 Los Angeles Olympics. If anyone is unaware of that story, go to the topic on that forum and read the story. It is a good one about our lad from Kinsley. There were a couple positive responses to it. The topic has not received a lot of response, but Mike maybe you can add a comment to it. It might earn you some stars.

Good luck at the Junction City meeting this weekend. I will be at my daughter's track meet in Kansas City. Sean McCarthy will be there. I hope we recruit some new group members. I think there is an opportunity at KU if we seize it. Carpe Diem (Seize the Day)!

Going by 2004-2005 rosters for DI Schools here are some that I found with # of Kansas preps that went on to these universities in brackets. I'm not counting out of staters that came to a juco in the state to wrestle and then left at this time, only the true Kansas kids:

*I don't know everyone in Kansas wrestling,so help me out and check to see if I ommitted anyone...I'm only taking those that were officially on rosters from websites at this time as they would include redshirts and such.*

Pac 10 (4)
Big XII (10)
Big 10 (1)
Air Force (2)
Appalachian St (1)
Edinboro (1)
N. Iowa (1)
Navy (1)
Ohio (1)
N. Colorado (1)
S. Dakota St (1)

If you all can think of any that were on team just from last season that would be great.

Oh got another set of statistics that might be intriguing to some. Even with a DII and an NAIA program in Kansas last year, 4 year colleges from the NAIA and DII wrestling schools from the neighboring states took a total of 33 Kansas Preps! This doesn't even start to include someone who may have come to Kansas to wrestle Juco and then transferred out...these are Kansas High School alumns!

If you add the DI guys that left to the neighboring state you get 12 more for a total of 45! There are only 10 varsity spots on a wrestling team in college, so if you look at it in terms of bodies, Kansas could field almost 5 teams just on talent that left the state, which coincidentally is the same number of total men's programs you get in KS when you include the NJCAA schools!

Swayz, no doubt that we have the talent base. Can you imagine all the prospects in three years that will come out of this year's Freshman class?

I do hope that more of you will log on to the KU Sports.com website and post on the active topics that I have mentioned in this thread. I really think this is a website that the KU Athletic Department pays attention to, especially the Basketball Forum section. I think it would be good to get a lot of wrestling support on that topic in the Basketball Forum about what to do with the Rainy Day fund. Wrestling has received some support but they are coming strong for soccer too.

http://boards.kusports.com/

Don't mean to sound dumb here but do the title IX numbers count the participants or the "scholarship" participants?

In an effort to clean-up several posts which were off subject, they were deleted. The posts regarding Equestrian at K.S.U. were deleted as they have no bearing on this topic.

My intent in deleting the posts and purging the topic was simple. Many individuals do not read long posts or topics. I was attempting to form the topic along the lines of the topic heading.

If I offended Aaron, Mike, or Vince, I do apologize.

Okay, I was posting and have just seen your apology. I appreciate that very much. Richard, you do a lot of good things for the wrestling community with your work on the Board, your posting of information, your moderating and I would bet many other things that I am just not aware of. I personally thank you for all of that. It is just that sometimes I wish you were a little more tolerant of some people on the forum. We may not agree with you but most of us are honestly just trying to be helpful to Kansas wrestling in some way. I know you are too.

My wife is constantly telling me that my posts are too long. Guess what, she won't read them for that reason. But that is her right. Mike Furches would need to start paring down too!

I guess as a forum if we want to limit the length of post we could limit the number of words. I have seen a forum that does. Of course all you have to do is post again.

Gotta have a moderator to stem the tide of flotsam. Richard does a bang up job. Actually there is a very large # of horsy riders in the KC area that attend KU. It seems that encouraging a riding program might be a backdoor way to get Wrestling added. It might be painful for some to do this, but we have to look at the big picture and not just our immediate knee jerk feelings.

Going to watch a polo match and riding are two different things. I'm sure those Johnson County brats just like being in attendance.

NMHU made a simular move by adding women's rodeo and wrestling.

Actually in the southern regions of Johnson County there is still some acreage and even wealthier smaller farm residences. You see a lot of horses in those communities. I think it would also be true of Miami, Douglas, Shawnee and some of the other counties nearby Lawrence. There is also the American Royal in Kansas City. It is possible that there might be enough interest in the area around Lawrence to make an equestrian team feasible at KU. I bet rodeo might be popular at KSU.

My wife is a riding instructor in southern Jo.Co. ( we don't live there) and there are a few brats,but by and large most of the kids are just like the Aquinas kids, but there are many excellent riders that have no where to go. A team at KU would surely catch on, and as they do at K-State the facility could be rented from a local farm. Just a thought. Wow, wrestlers lobbying for a riding program at KU, that would probably make headlines at the K.C. Pravda Star.

I would support the riding team but I want them to add the women's wrestling team first. I think it is time to toughen the KU image a little.

I would support womens wrestling at KU but it would be hard to get a rule change thru that allowed mascara, lipgloss, and fake nails on the mat.

I was about to say I was doing some research one day and say King College wrestling, that's a team in need of bodies and anybody that has remote interest in wrestling in college would probably be varsity no problem.

The Tri City area is a great place to live. I know I grew up there. I have been in contact on a regular basis with the new/old coach, Doug Reese who is a good guy. He is getting a ton of recruits in the Tennessee/Virginia/North Carolina/South Carolina area, also all those schools in the area are only about 3 hours away. Coach Reese has to compete with a ton of schools in getting wrestlers. I hate to say it this way, but likely a decent wrestler from Kansas would get a spot very easy on the team without too much trouble. It has always amazed me at the number of college wrestling opportunities in the area, but the lack of Quality High School Wrestling.

While at Ames, I've had the chance to visit with Coach Bobby Douglas of Iowa State and Coach Mark Manning of Nebraska. Each wish us well and we have their full support!

That is good that we have their support...Big 12 coaches need to stand up for a possible extra team being added in DI and in the conference.

I agree that it would be great to get the full support of the five Big 12 coaches and their AD's in urging KU, KSU or WSU to add wrestling teams. I think it is certainly in their interest to especialy encourage KU and KSU to add teams. I am glad to hear that Coach Douglas and Coach Manning have offered to be supportive.

Mike, do you mean that the quality of wrestling is not as good in NC,SC,TN and VA as Kansas? I was taking that to be your meaning. I certainly was surprised to see the number of North Carolina schools with Division I teams when I recently looked at the complete current list on NCAA Division I schools. Good for North Carolina though that they have them.

I had a nice long talk with Terry Brands and his efforts to get the program going at UTC. He was very supportive and helpful!

Tell us more Randy.

I wonder if anyone is trying to get a wrestling team started at the University of Texas? It sures seems like they should have the financial ability to start both men and women teams. Isn't women wrestling pretty strong in Texas? The Big 12 needs more wrestling teams at all the Big 12 schools. Second in the Big 12 ahead of Oklahoma and Nebraska is very impressive for KU. I imagine it does not take into account yet the added revenue from ESPN and adidas contracts, so I think KU is actually doing very well.