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USA Competitor Cards #149973 09/01/09 01:16 AM
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Cokeley Offline OP
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It is already that time again! Last year's cards have expired and it is time to purchase the 2009/10 USA Wrestling Cards. East Kansas Wrestling Club is ready to purchase cards but we are wondering if the nightmarish process we went through last year is going to be improved? Are we going to join the ranks of the other 95% of the United States and allow online purchase of these cards? I have also heard that fees are going up. How much will competitor's cards be this year?

Mr. Juby, could you provide us with a COMPLETE breakdown of where all of the funds are distributed both from a U.S. perspective and a intrastate perspective?

I would like to propose, if the funds are truly being taken from the states if we use themat.com to purchase them from, that we create a USAWKS.COM PAYPAL account and create a sql database with a internet explorer front end to allow the purchase through OUR web site and then link the database to USA Wrestlings so that NO labor has to be involved.

The delay in getting a card is not good and the difficulty of delivering the card when it takes to long to get a number is not good. We have to email a spreadsheet, mail a check, and then wait. There MUST be a better way.


Will Cokeley
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Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Cokeley] #149985 09/01/09 03:03 PM
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Mike Juby Offline
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Will,

USAW increased the cost of competitor cards, sanctions and charters this year. We will be absorbing the additional charter and sanction fees (at least this year), but will be increasing our competitor cards by $5 to $35.

After some significant discussion, both the corporate board and Kids' Executive Committee decided to continue to process cards at the club level rather than going online. One of the concerns was the additional $5 fee charged for online registrations, particularly since we were already increasing the competitors' cards by an equal amount. It seems like we are always nickel & diming our members, and this was an effort to hold the line somewhat on these additional fees.

Last year was the first time that we had to deal with the spreadsheets and coaching backgrounds checks; hopefully we've moved a little up the learning curve and this year will go a little smoother. I talked to several other states at this year's state leaders' summit to see how they are handling cards. Florida manages an online registration similar to what you had proposed, but they emphasized that it was not as easily done as might be expected. They found that they needed to employ a full time employee who manages their web site, including the registration page. This is in addition to the additional card processing fee of approximately $1 per card. I don't think that most members would believe that these additional costs would be justified, when the only major benefit would be avoiding the slight delay while you wait for your check to arrive at the state office before the cards are issued.

If you are concerned about the delay while you wait for your check to arrive, you could make an advance payment to the state office. With this credit in place, your cards could be processed immediately upon receipt of the spreadsheet. Card numbers could even be emailed to you, if time were of the essence. This would allow you to receive the card numbers on the same day that you requested them. Just an option …

When I make the financial report at this year's state body meeting I'll try to make sure that I cover the detail that you're requesting.

Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Mike Juby] #149987 09/01/09 05:00 PM
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Something we all need to be asking ourselves and our members between now and the state meeting is, at what point does the cost of doing business with USAW become too high?


Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: sportsfan02] #149996 09/01/09 11:55 PM
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Can someone tell me the difference in AAU rather then USA wrestling.I here there tournaments are just as good if not better and fees are much cheaper then USA.

Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: CJA] #150001 09/02/09 11:45 AM
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AAU cards are $12 and available on-line. Close to $200,000 less than USAW for Kansas.


Eric Johnson


Acts 4:12


Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Chief Renegade] #150002 09/02/09 12:10 PM
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Cokeley Offline OP
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Mr. Juby,

I see no reason we should not get the figures out to the general membership NOW before we all start buying our cards. The real problem I have with this explanation is that I KNOW you have that information readily available, perhaps even committed to memory, so why would it not be given out. We have a right to know where are money is going. This organization has an obligation to its membership to operate transparently. If an AAU Card is only $12, purchased online, why are USA Cards $23 more? What benefits do we receive from each group? When the cost is almost triple it is past time to start looking into this.

In addition, am I correct to state that only Florida and Kansas make their members purchase their USA cards through their state organization? It seems odd to me that the other 48 states are onboard with online purchasing and NOT controling who gets a coach's card and who gets a competitor's card... I am missing something and I am sure the general membership would love to know too.

Honestly, do you REALLY want me to send you a check in advance knowing that I am going to be buying 50 USA cards? If I do I can expect an email within the day with the USA Card numbers for all of those wrestlers on my spreadsheet? I can do that but PAYPAL and Credit Cards are the most common method of payment for online transactions today so I am not sure why we are stuck in the dark ages of check writing. (And yes, I am aware that credit card companies/banks and Paypal charge a fee for handling transactions.) By the way, the "slight" delay you spoke of turned into weeks for some of the card purchases across the state. Last year cards were purchased through USAWKS and when wrestlers appeared at the Fall Brawl to register their names were not in the USA Card database which forced some to purchase a second card from Missouri because Kansas had no card selling delegation available.

I am sure the majority of these issues only apply to the "hard core" wrestlers as 7,000 may be oblivious to how this is happening and where their money goes but that doesn't make it ok to ignore those of us who are inconvienced and want to know.


Will Cokeley
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Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Cokeley] #150011 09/02/09 03:28 PM
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Mike Juby Offline
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Will,

The annual financial report is available on this website (www.usawks.com/financials08.pdf). A general summary of how the $30 membership fee for the 07/08 year was allocated would be as follows:
  • $20.00 - USA Wrestling
  • $ 2.50 - Kansas Kids' Division
  • $ 3.65 - Kansas Junior/Cadet Divisions
  • $ 1.40 - Kansas Women's Division
  • $ 1.00 - Kansas Officials' Division
  • $ 1.45 - Kansas State Office
These are rough averages, since there are other items of revenue and expenses that go through our organization, but it should give a general picture of where the money is going.

On the question of “why USAW,” I’m going to post an article written by current FILA board member Stan Dziedzic. He does a much better job of making the case for USAW than I could, and I agree with most of his points.
Quote:
Truly the One Wrestling Organization
by Stan Dziedzic, former USA Wrestling President

There are several organizations that offer access to wrestling opportunities. Each is able to provide tournaments, practices and club activities. Wrestlers, parents and coaches have to choose where and with whom to allocate their resources and devote their time. When you weigh these alternatives there is only one of these organizations that has the depth and unparalleled platform to strengthen our sport at all levels. As a wrestler, coach or fan there is one organization that after review provides opportunities and programs that I am confident will compel you to join. It is the only organization that your membership makes a difference in strengthening our sport in the United States.

What is this 'one organization?’ The answer is very clear. It is USA Wrestling, the National Governing Body for the Sport of Amateur Wrestling in the United States, and the only organization recognized by the U.S. Olympic Committee as the Governing Body for the Sport in America.

What does it mean to be the National Governing Body and recognized by the U.S. Olympic Committee? Please allow me to fill you in on one of the best amateur sports organizations in the World. Then as you contemplate your many choices, I believe you will agree with me that there is only one that is a "must" to be a member.

USA Wrestling offers the wrestling community a comprehensive package for an extremely reasonable price. USA Wrestling:
  • Conducts four levels of coaches' education that includes the latest techniques and philosophies in the sport.
  • Conducts quality local, Regional and National level events for nine different age groups in four different styles: Folkstyle, Freestyle, Greco-Roman and Women's wrestling.
  • Developed the well known "Ultimate Challenge Series of Folkstyle Wrestling" and “Folkstyle Tour of America.”
  • Conducts camps and clinics for athletes to enhance their wrestling skills and build strong character.
  • Developed TheMat.com to provides coaches and athletes an educational tool that offers in-depth visual aids, both still and live action, demonstrating wrestling technique. The 'live action' wrestling techniques alone are worth the price of membership. This is an invaluable catalog of techniques as used by the best in the world.
  • Provides the membership with USA Wrestler, a publication with all the results and highlights of the wrestling season, published six times a year.
  • Has contributed financial and human resources to save the sport from extinction by working to change the misinterpretation of Title IX.
  • Has the largest and strongest mat and pairings officials association in World.
  • Supports real wrestling role models for young athletes to look up to like Cael Sanderson, Rulon Gardner, Henry Cejudo, Kristie Marano and Patricia Miranda.
  • Provides many opportunities for female competitors to become involved in the sport and compete in every possible level including the Olympic Games.
  • Offers outstanding insurance coverage. The Sports Accident insurance, which is secondary non-duplicating, provides coverage up to $100,000 per benefit period and $1,000,000 lifetime in coverage. A one-time yearly deductible does apply to all covered claims. General liability coverage of $5,000,000 per incident with no general aggregate for club administrators, event directors, volunteers, coaches, state association leaders and officials is included.
  • Provides opportunities for young talented athletes to train at the U.S. Olympic Training Center with world class athletes and coaches.
  • Provides support for U.S. Olympic-caliber athletes to win medals at Olympic and World Championships. Membership in USA Wrestling assists our elite athletes in providing opportunities and resources to train and prepare under the best conditions possible. This is truly important if wrestling expects to survive and thrive in the new world of sports.
  • Sponsors the National Team program in all three styles, including full-time professional National Coaches, as well as direct financial support to athletes.
  • Provides an array of educational and promotional videotape materials.
  • Provides the wrestling community with access to wrestling information through the nation's best amateur wrestling website, TheMat.com.
  • Represents the USA in FILA, the international governing body for the sport wrestling worldwide.
  • Works to preserve the history of wrestling with support of the National Wrestling Hall of Fame and various museums across the country.
I hope this introduces the vast array of programs and opportunities USA Wrestling provides its membership and the public. USA Wrestling is doing so much more than any other organization to develop coaches and athletes of all levels, and in all styles. More importantly, USA Wrestling does more than any other organization to build and strengthen the sport of wrestling.

In addition, USA Wrestling has focused on moving wrestling forward in the United States, with plans for the wrestling community to succeed in a flooded and competitive sports market. When you take the time to look at wrestling organizations nationally, ask this simple question, "does every membership dollar directly funnel back to the sport?" Not being a member of USA Wrestling limits the resources that the National Governing Body has to fight issues that threaten our sport.

USA Wrestling focuses on the mission of promoting wrestling at all age levels. The organization does not divide its energies or loyalties with other sports. Coaches like the legendary Dan Gable, John Smith, Bobby Douglas, J Robinson, Tom Brands, Mark Manning and Greg Strobel, just to name a few, are strong supporters and members of USA Wrestling and its programs. Every year, these coaches and many more visible members of the wrestling community work hand in hand with USA Wrestling to build our sport.

John Smith, Olympic and World Champion and the Oklahoma State University Head Coach, recently said of USA Wrestling, "I could not have been an Olympic Champion without, No. 1, an opportunity. USA Wrestling at the state level and at the National level gave me an opportunity to fulfill that dream to be an Olympic Champion."

Dan Gable, Olympic and World Champion and a World and Olympic Coach, said of USA Wrestling: "USA Wrestling is a comprehensive organization that strives to be the best in supporting beginning kids to the elite senior athletes. USA Wrestling is poised to provide the services and offerings necessary for every coach and athlete to be successful in America's oldest and greatest sport!”

USA Wrestling is an organization composed of 49 state associations with grass roots leaders, coaches, officials, volunteers and parents working to provide opportunities and activities for all levels of membership. It is an organization of Olympians, business men and women, coaches, administrators, armed services and those who truly believe in the sport and what it provides its participants. It is an organization that continues to strive to be the best in the world at every level. Whether it be the kids level, elite level, the novice level or the expert level, USA Wrestling's mission is to provide the services and tools necessary for each individual in their own way to be successful in the sport.

USA Wrestling is also a sport of family, bringing every element and person associated with the sport together. The sport of wrestling becomes a way of life. It is an excellent lifetime activity for health and well being for everyone involved. Within USA Wrestling's program structure, young athletes learn perseverance, determination, goal setting and commitment. Athletes and coaches learn self-discipline and self-control. The "family" is also exemplified when people from all across the country gather at regional and national events rekindling friendships that will last for a lifetime. USA Wrestling is committed to its family and strives everyday to build the ever-growing family of members.

Cael Sanderson, 4x NCAA Champion, World Silver Medalist and one of the greatest wrestlers ever, had this to say about the USA Wrestling programs: "For me, it was a great way to learn to wrestle. For our family, we got to spend time together and travel together. It kept us a very close family."

I hope this begins to provide you with a clearer picture of what USA Wrestling is really about. If our sport is to flourish, it is incumbent upon the wrestling community to coalesce our support and resources. I encourage you to join USA Wrestling and become a member of our wrestling family.

Sincerely,
Stan Dziedzic


Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Mike Juby] #150013 09/02/09 05:20 PM
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Jarman Offline
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What are coaches cards going to cost?

Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Jarman] #150014 09/02/09 05:40 PM
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Coaches cards will remain the same.


Are you making a POSITIVE difference in the life of kids?

Randy Hinderliter
USAW Kansas
KWCA Rep/Coaches Liaison
Ottawa University Volunteer Assistant
Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: usawks1] #150015 09/02/09 05:45 PM
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Thanks Randy

Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Mike Juby] #150016 09/02/09 05:54 PM
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Mr. Juby,

You seem to have explained the reasoning for USAW but what are benefits to AAU vs. USAW?

With the price going up so much I would/could almost bet that clubs have a drop in wrestlers. Might be a small one but, like me for example 3 kids wrestling plus shoes and all of the other items that ours or other clubs do not supply. My boys will wrestle but other parents that have been laid-off around the state or have multiple kids wrestling they might not. It’s almost like USAW is talking out of both sides of their mouths. Trying to save the sport but at the same time making it one of the more expensive at the same time?

Could some one maybe look into the pros-cons AAU and USAW?

Last edited by Namwen; 09/02/09 05:56 PM. Reason: Spelling errors
Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: usawks1] #150017 09/02/09 06:13 PM
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sportsfan02 Offline
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Originally Posted By: usawks1
Coaches cards will remain the same.

Lets be honest here, coaches cards did in effect go up $17.00 last year due to the background checks. I'm sure the people in Colorado Springs were smart enough to see that if they raised the coaches cards again so soon that they would have a full fledged revolt on their hands.
So in other words, expect coaches cards to go up next year, along with the increases in club and tournament sanctions our Kansas leaders decided not to pass on to us this year. They may blame those future increases on increased cost of background checks or pressure from insurance companies but expect the increase just the same.


Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Namwen] #150020 09/02/09 06:42 PM
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Mike Juby Offline
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Namwen,

Stan Dziedzic’s article was specifically designed to highlight the advantages of USAW over other groups, including AAU. Many of the items that he hit on dealt with the advantages of belonging to an organization that is entirely devoted to wrestling, with all of the funds going towards that end. AAU cannot claim this. He also emphasized USAW’s unique position as the national governing body for wrestling, giving it both the obligation and the opportunity to manage our national teams. AAU cannot claim this. AAU does provide insurance and event sanctions roughly on par with what USAW offers.

Concerning USAW's perceived ambivalence over the affect of card price increases on its members, I would note that USAW has not increased the cost of their competitors’ cards in nine years. During that time period, inflation has eroded the value of the dollar by 20% (based on the CPI as published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics). While all of their costs were being affected by inflation, USAW has held the line on competitor card increases for almost a decade!

Finally, I would emphasize that after the card increase USAW will only collect $21 from each competitor card, with the balance staying in our state to fund our operations. The comparison with an AAU card should begin from that level.

Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Mike Juby] #150021 09/02/09 06:52 PM
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Being a member of USAW for many years >20 I am well aware when I travel nationwide the importance of belonging to USAW and not the intrastate federation's such as National United Wrestling for Youth which "unites" much of the eastern states such as MN, MI; IL; PA; OH; NJ; IN and I'm sure I've left out a few...I do know that their expense is much more than $35. They seem to have a great deal of hidden expenses that adds up.

I'm truly a believer that USAW should be supported by KS. While yes, it does get political within the organization the OTC is one fabulous place and the USAW organization contributes a great deal to advancing wrestling nationally and internationally.

Just my .02

As well -- if your athletic wrestler does win an Olympic Gold Medal he or she will get a check from none other than USAW for $250,000 from the Living the Dream Medal fund created to award stipends to U.S. wrestlers who medal at Worlds and Olympics and can win significant amounts while bringing home the silver or bronze as well.



Last edited by in it to win it; 09/02/09 08:30 PM. Reason: info

In it to win it.
Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: in it to win it] #150025 09/02/09 10:10 PM
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Cokeley Offline OP
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It is difficult to get an apples to apples comparison. The intent was not to stimulate a comparision although one must admit that it was inevitable.

What we are going to see now is what we experience every year. Counting coaches there are over 9,000 card buyers in Kansas. The majority of these card buyers don't need what the majority of their funds are going towards. They are merely along for the ride. We are lucky if 5% participate in the international styles which is the true benefit of USA over AAU. USA has FILA Governing body status while AAU does not. $12 or $21 there are funds being spent that really don't benefit the majority of our members. This is, for the most part, impossible for us to control. What we can control is where the other funds are going and I think the majority do not know how those are being utilized either. This stream might educate some of those.

So, Mr. Juby, where is the additional $5 going this year? If we buy our cards online from USA Wrestling are they $21 or $35? I am confused as to why some states would be willing to give up their funds if they could keep them. Further, I am confused why USA would allow Kansas and Florida to keep $14 while all of the other states are forgoing those funds to USA Wrestling. It really doesn't make very much sense. I am just looking for the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Black and white. When it comes to funds there should be NO gray areas. No more tap dancing please...


Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Cokeley] #150027 09/03/09 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted By: Cokeley
$12 or $21 there are funds being spent that really don't benefit the majority of our members. This is, for the most part, impossible for us to control.

Well, yes we can control that "part". We can keep those monies in our state and at the very least have that much more to spend on our own kids for anything the executive board or the body deems worthy. Or, we can cut the cost of our cards with the hopes it will create more oportunities for more wrestlers at all levels.


Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Cokeley] #150031 09/03/09 11:10 AM
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Will,

I finally understand the purpose for your posts. You should have been more direct at the outset – I had truly believed that your concern was over the pricing level of our cards and the utilization of the monies that were collected, whether they were used for state or national purposes.

I can now see that your concern was directed to the use of the additional $5 card fee. I’m going to go out on a limb (although it seems like a pretty strong branch) and guess that you are aware that $2 is going to be paid to Kathy as compensation for her position as state membership director. There was never any effort to hide this fact – all of the board members were clearly informed about it and I was going to make a special point of calling attention to it at our state body meeting when the fee increase and financials were discussed. Here is the reasoning for adding this stipend.

For the past several years, I have had board members recommend that Kathy should be properly compensated for the vast range of duties which the state imposes on her. Most, if not all, of the other states with our types of numbers pay their staff, but I was resistant. I have always been a volunteer for this organization, whether it was when I was club director, district director, Kids’ state director or now that I am state chairman. That may have been unfair to Kathy, who in some ways just got pulled along for the ride, but she was a good sport and went along with it. A few years ago, the board decided to begin paying her 50 cents per card, which wasn’t much based on the number of hours that she works, but it was a nice honorarium nonetheless.

The reason that I relented in my opposition was due to the alternatives available to our state. If we were to go online, all of our members would have been subjected to an additional $5 processing fee (charged by USAW on all online registrations), none of which would have come back to our state. USAW-Kansas is in the unique position as one of only two states not registering coaches online, and one of very few not registering wrestlers online. After experiencing one year of managing the special requirements placed on us as a condition by USAW of this special arrangement, Kathy had found the time commitment to be much more than she was willing to continue with on a largely volunteer basis. Kathy was already spending well in excess of 40 hours/week working on memberships for the bulk of our folkstyle season, both in dealing with club issues and in satisfying the requirements of USAW. Since those calls also tended to come in at all hours of the day, seven days a week, the hours seemed even more onerous.

With the price increases coming from USAW, it didn’t seem to be a good idea to add another $5 per card online fee on top of the other increases. I saw that we could avoid the additional processing fee and finally pay Kathy something close to what her efforts are worth, something that seemed a win-win. Therefore, I proposed the following to our board and Executive Council on the use of the additional $5 card fee for the 2009-10 season:
  • Competitor cards in Kansas increase by $5 to $35. This will bring the competitor cards in line with coaches cards, which are already $35. This would result in a $34,800 increase from memberships (retain $4 after $1 to USAW).
  • Keep sanction fees and charter fees the same. We will use part of the increase in competitor cards to offset this loss. I don’t want to be throwing multiple price increases on our membership in a single season, and doing this will keep it simple for our clubs – the only price increase they will see is to the competitor cards. This would result in a $2,850 loss on charters (190 clubs) and an $1,830 loss on sanctions (122 events).
  • Compensate Kathy $2 per card for continuing to work with the clubs to do memberships offline. This will avoid increasing coaches and competitors by the $5 online fee. This would be a cost of $21,000 for Kathy (8700 competitors & 1800 coaches). This compensation is comparable with what other states of our size and situation are paying their staff.
  • Increase the card monies given to the Kids’ Division by $9,000.
I hope this answers your question.

Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Mike Juby] #150035 09/03/09 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mike Juby

I’m going to go out on a limb (although it seems like a pretty strong branch) and guess that you are aware that $2 is going to be paid to Kathy as compensation for her position as state membership director. There was never any effort to hide this fact – all of the board members were clearly informed about it and I was going to make a special point of calling attention to it at our state body meeting when the fee increase and financials were discussed. Here is the reasoning for adding this stipend.

For the past several years, I have had board members recommend that Kathy should be properly compensated for the vast range of duties which the state imposes on her. Most, if not all, of the other states with our types of numbers pay their staff, but I was resistant. I have always been a volunteer for this organization, whether it was when I was club director, district director, Kids’ state director or now that I am state chairman. That may have been unfair to Kathy, who in some ways just got pulled along for the ride, but she was a good sport and went along with it. A few years ago, the board decided to begin paying her 50 cents per card, which wasn’t much based on the number of hours that she works, but it was a nice honorarium nonetheless.

And she is worth every penny!


Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Mike Juby] #150037 09/03/09 02:07 PM
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Mr. Juby,

You overestimated my knowledge of this topic. I am still confused yet entlightened. I still don't understand how USA Wrestling permits only a few states to do what we are doing and why not all states wouldn't want to do this. Specifically:

How much would an online competitors card cost if purchased online, directly from USA Wrestling?

If Kansans purchased their cards online, like the majority of states, would any of those funds be funneled back to Kansas?

Why is the online fee $5? Where does that money go?

Why is an AAU card only $12 when purchased online if it costs $5 to perform this action?

Why don't other states want to do exactly what we are doing?

Why doesn't USA Wrestling MAKE us do what the majority are doing?

It seems odd to me that other states would voluntarily give up funds and it seems odd to the me that USA Wrestling would voluntarily give up the additional funds they would make if we were to buy our cards online. It doesn't make sense or add up...

Further, I don't think the Executive Board should have the power to decide to pay someone a salary in a volunteer organization. It is a slippery slope you will take us down when EVERYONE decides they need to be paid for their time.

After reading your post I have done some research and I understand that this vote was done via email. Is this accepted by our bylaws? How does the membership know who voted for what? How do we know it was adequately discussed? Why wouldn't this take a vote by the state body? Isn't it a conflict of interest for you to be conducting the vote and discussion to decide whether or not your household was to receive nearly $21,000? That is an annual salary to many of our members and we are paying it out for a data entry and processing job that is part time???

If you paid someone $20 an hour it would take 1,050 hours to get to $21,000. If this job is taking that long then I understand why I was getting my cards more than two weeks after sending my check. It is 2010 and this needs to be online and automated.

As far as disclosure... Mr. Juby you are covering it up. In your post yesterday where you broke down the distribution of the $30 we paid for a membership card last year you DID NOT outline that $.50 per card was being paid to your wife. If you were not covering this up you would have posted the disclosure from the onset and not waiting util it became obvious to you that I had heard a rumor.

I do appreciated everything you and your family have done for Kansas wrestling and I agree with nearly everything you decide upon and support but this one needs to be explained a little further and in more detail. We are talking about $367,500 and that is a tremendous sum.

You are technical enough to know there are much better solutions out there that would make this easier, more efficient, and give your family back all of the hours it is losing. By the state body meeting I could demo a internet accessible front end that would allow all cards to be purchased online and could be linked to USA Wrestling as well as to trackwrestling to save lots of time and effort and deliver a card number instantly to our members. That is where the money should be invested. Put our money in a solution not a bandaid over a symptom.

Last edited by Cokeley; 09/03/09 02:09 PM.

Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
Re: USA Competitor Cards [Re: Cokeley] #150038 09/03/09 02:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,153
Mike Juby Offline
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Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,153
Will,

You are accusing me of a cover-up. Obviously you are simply going to take anything I say as either a falsehood or self-serving. I've made an honest effort to respond to all of your comments, but I'm done now. You can think what you like, I don't really care. My goal is to do what I think is best for Kansas wrestling, whether it pleases Will Cokeley or not.

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